What is the diffrence between Magga and Phala

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What is the diffrence between Magga and Phala

Postby SarathW » Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:00 am

It appears to me that Magga and Phala is attained with one thought moment. See page 248 of the attachment. http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/abhidhamma.pdf

However it appears to me that it is possible to attain these at different times as there are two different persons (Puggala) are identified in texts. For example see the attachment: http://tipitaka.wikia.com/wiki/Kosambiya_Sutta

Which says “When the noble disciple is endowed with these seven characteristics, he is ready to realise the fruits (Phala) of the entry into the stream of the Teaching”

Could someone help me to clarify this please?
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Re: What is the diffrence between Magga and Phala

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:33 am

Greetings Sarath,

SarathW wrote:Could someone help me to clarify this please?

I don't know that I can clarify per se, other than to say that you're not the first to observe that the Abhidhammic interpretation of these terms has evolved beyond their original Sutta usage.

Modern meditation guidance that is rooted in the Visuddhimagga is similarly founded on the more technical and prescriptive Abhidhammic interpretation.

How you proceed will probably depend on what set of resources you find most authorative or useful.

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Re: What is the diffrence between Magga and Phala

Postby santa100 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:50 am

SarathW wrote:
"It appears to me that Magga and Phala is attained with one thought moment. See page 248 of the attachment. http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/abhidhamma.pdf"

Are you sure the page number is right? 'cuz page 248 actually shows a "process" of 7 thought-moments, not a single thought-moment..
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Re: What is the diffrence between Magga and Phala

Postby SarathW » Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:58 am

santa100 wrote:SarathW wrote:
"It appears to me that Magga and Phala is attained with one thought moment. See page 248 of the attachment. http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/abhidhamma.pdf"

Are you sure the page number is right? 'cuz page 248 actually shows a "process" of 7 thought-moments, not a single thought-moment..


Sorry Santa, you are correct. I meant one thought process (17 thought moments) or within seven Javana thought moments.
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Re: What is the diffrence between Magga and Phala

Postby santa100 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:03 am

So as long as it's not a single thought-moment and as long as there's a "process" (could be happening very fast but still indicates distinct time units), it should be no problem right?
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Re: What is the diffrence between Magga and Phala

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:14 am

Path and Fruition are different thought-processes, but both have nibbāna as their object. Each of the four Paths is attained only once — thereafter, the Noble Ones can attain Fruition consciousness whenever they wish. The attainment of the Path is very brief, but the attainment of Fruition may continue without interruption for hours or even for as long as seven days and nights.

See Purification by Knowledge and Vision for details.
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Re: What is the diffrence between Magga and Phala

Postby SarathW » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:25 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Path and Fruition are different thought-processes, but both have nibbāna as their object. Each of the four Paths is attained only once — thereafter, the Noble Ones can attain Fruition consciousness whenever they wish. The attainment of the Path is very brief, but the attainment of Fruition may continue without interruption for hours or even for as long as seven days and nights.

See Purification by Knowledge and Vision for details.


Bahante - Your link was very useful
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Re: What is the diffrence between Magga and Phala

Postby SarathW » Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:30 am

santa100 wrote:So as long as it's not a single thought-moment and as long as there's a "process" (could be happening very fast but still indicates distinct time units), it should be no problem right?


Hi Santa100 - I have read your comment on The Stages of the Path. Now I got a better understanding of the Magga and Phala process. Thanks.
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