vipaka of dana to bad people

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vipaka of dana to bad people

Postby Stephen K » Tue May 19, 2009 10:37 pm

Generosity towards worthy people is good karma, isn't it?

Is generosity towards unworthy people bad karma?

If someone gives money to, let's say, a madman, does the giver accumulate negative karma from this act?
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Re: vipaka of dana to bad people

Postby retrofuturist » Tue May 19, 2009 10:51 pm

Greetings Stefan,

Stefan wrote:Is generosity towards unworthy people bad karma?


Not unless you're giving it to them with the intention of them doing something unwholesome with it (e.g. funding an assassination attempt, giving drugs to someone so they can mess themselves up)

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: vipaka of dana to bad people

Postby Stephen K » Tue May 19, 2009 10:57 pm

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Stefan,

Stefan wrote:Is generosity towards unworthy people bad karma?


Not unless you're giving it to them with the intention of them doing something unwholesome with it (e.g. funding an assassination attempt, giving drugs to someone so they can mess themselves up)

Metta,
Retro. :)

I got it. Thanks.
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Re: vipaka of dana to bad people

Postby Individual » Tue May 19, 2009 11:06 pm

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Stefan,

Stefan wrote:Is generosity towards unworthy people bad karma?


Not unless you're giving it to them with the intention of them doing something unwholesome with it (e.g. funding an assassination attempt, giving drugs to someone so they can mess themselves up)

Metta,
Retro. :)

Willful ignorance, even subtle, is itself an intention. Naivety has consequences too, not merely pre-meditated acts of aggression.
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra
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Re: vipaka of dana to bad people

Postby retrofuturist » Wed May 20, 2009 12:36 am

Greetings Individual,

It's worth bearing in mind though that the Buddha did not discourage people from making offering to wanderers of other sects, even though their ascetics and practitioners were to certain extents ignorant.

Kamma is intention and it's not transcendent, so it's to be expected that there will be some degree of imperfection associated with any volitional act.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
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Re: vipaka of dana to bad people

Postby thornbush » Wed May 20, 2009 2:04 am

It's worth bearing in mind though that the Buddha did not discourage people from making offering to wanderers of other sects, even though their ascetics and practitioners were to certain extents ignorant.

And it seems that 'charity begins at home' is the message forwarded here....
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"Endowed with these five qualities, a lay follower is a jewel of a lay follower, a lotus of a lay follower, a fine flower of a lay follower. Which five? He/she...
does not search for recipients of his/her offerings outside [of the Sangha], and gives offerings here first..."
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Re: vipaka of dana to bad people

Postby cooran » Wed May 20, 2009 7:46 am

Hello all,

dhammapal posted this as a response on E-sangha:
Should One Honour Shameless and Immoral Monks?
http://www.aimwell.org/Books/Ledi/Dhamm ... onour.html

metta
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---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: vipaka of dana to bad people

Postby Individual » Fri May 22, 2009 12:16 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Individual,

It's worth bearing in mind though that the Buddha did not discourage people from making offering to wanderers of other sects, even though their ascetics and practitioners were to certain extents ignorant.

Ignorant, yes, but not necessarily malicious. I don't think the Buddha would've supported giving offerings to malicious people. As I understand it, the early Buddhists were ambivalent or supportive of the Jains, but hostile (that might be the wrong word to use) towards the Ajivikans and Carvakans; they didn't view all outside sects as equal. A religious sect or teacher can have ignorant views, but still be the basis for moral conduct, whereas other religious sects may be the basis for immoral conduct -- one could use extreme examples like suicide cults or the Islamic groups engaged in terrorism. If a person funds a Muslim group which funds terrorism, out of their own ignorance, they partially bear the consequence for the act. Teachers and groups which fall in between these extremes, those which are simply exploitative liars, like Madame Blavatsky and L. Ron Hubbard, are a grey area.

retrofuturist wrote:Kamma is intention and it's not transcendent, so it's to be expected that there will be some degree of imperfection associated with any volitional act.

But some forms of imperfection are more imperfect than others.
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra
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