Retro,
I think you've made a good connection. I'm going to think about it for a while. Please feel free to remind me if I forget to come back to this.
cause of depression
Re: cause of depression
Maybe to word it differently...one needs to make curing depression a side effect of practice and not the goal.danieLion wrote:So "side effects" and "cures" are mutually exclusive?cbonanno wrote:The fact that meditation rids depressive symptoms is just a side effect of practice.
edited to add this link I ran across today:
http://www.tricycle.com/cushion/goalless-practice" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: cause of depression
So what is it please? I asked because I don't know. I have suffered depression a lot.danieLion wrote:Yes, can you?BlueLotus wrote:Can you give a Buddhist explanation to clinical depression please?Ben wrote:It depends whether you mean clinical depression or sadness/melancholy.
And if you are looking for a scientific/medical explanation, a Buddhist explanation, a combination or something else.
Re: cause of depression
BlueLotus: To clarify: "clinical" is just a fancy way of saying empirical/not just theoretical. Patients are part of the clinical analysis process, and participate in clarifying the meaning of empircal evidence/observations and interventions results.retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
BlueLotus wrote:Can you give a Buddhist explanation to clinical depression please?Ben wrote:It depends whether you mean clinical depression or sadness/melancholy.
And if you are looking for a scientific/medical explanation, a Buddhist explanation, a combination or something else.
Just throwing this out there for your consideration (so please don't try to "debate" me on it - I'm not here for that)...
Sloth (thīna), Torpor (middha)
http://www.zolag.co.uk/Cetasikas/html_n ... Doubt.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Metta,
Retro.
Retro, BlueLotus: Moping, lying or sitting around all day, staying in bed to hide from the world, and other sloth-and-torpor like behaviors may not be a cause of depression in an "ultimate" sense, but usually if not always make it worse. Most clinical psychologists agree (a bit of "Weasling" here on my part, I'll admit, but only for brevity's sake). So, here is (in part) a clinical explanation of a cause--or contributing factor if you prefer--of depression.
Re: cause of depression
1) Congnitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is a clinical explanation of depression.
2) CBT and the Buddha are in approximate agreement about role of the mind in creating depression.
3) Therefore, CBT is an approximate Buddhist clinical explanation of the cause(s) of depression.
2) CBT and the Buddha are in approximate agreement about role of the mind in creating depression.
3) Therefore, CBT is an approximate Buddhist clinical explanation of the cause(s) of depression.
Re: cause of depression
Hello all,
What is CBT?
http://www.aacbt.org/viewStory/WHAT+IS+CBT%3F" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
with metta
Chris
What is CBT?
http://www.aacbt.org/viewStory/WHAT+IS+CBT%3F" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
Re: cause of depression
A Psychiatrist and Cognitive Therapist who has in the past had much contact with Buddhadhamma writesdanieLion wrote:1) Congnitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is a clinical explanation of depression.
2) CBT and the Buddha are in approximate agreement about role of the mind in creating depression.
3) Therefore, CBT is an approximate Buddhist clinical explanation of the cause(s) of depression.
Cognitive Behaviour Therapy is not a clinical explanation of depression.
It is a response to depression and some other conditions, which is effective for some subjects, and highly effective in some cases.
But the causes of depression are various, and some types of depression do not respond to CBT or any kind of " talking therapy "
The clinical explanations of depression address a spectrum of causality.
The treatment of those types of depression which are the result of faulty learning, which is basically what CBT addresses, are compatible with increased mindfulness.
- BubbaBuddhist
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Re: cause of depression
Hey Peter wow man, good to see you again. I will now return to the balcony to watch.
BB
BB
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?
Re: cause of depression
Hi there John... I'll be on the balcony too...
Re: cause of depression
Please cite a name, otherwise I'll treat this as hearsay.PeterB wrote:A Psychiatrist and Cognitive Therapist who has in the past had much contact with Buddhadhamma writesdanieLion wrote:1) Congnitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is a clinical explanation of depression.
2) CBT and the Buddha are in approximate agreement about role of the mind in creating depression.
3) Therefore, CBT is an approximate Buddhist clinical explanation of the cause(s) of depression.
This doesn't address the logic of the syllogism.PeterB wrote:Cognitive Behaviour Therapy is not a clinical explanation of depression.
Incorrect. They're mostly caused by cognitive disrortions rooted in greed/passion/desire, hate/anger/aversion and inappropriate-attention/ignorance/delusion.PeterB wrote:But the causes of depression are various
First, the amount of people CBT doesn't work for isn't statistically significant. Second: if this therapist knew what he or she was talking about, he or she would know that CBT is not a "talk therapy" and that term "talk therapy" is a useless concept. Psychiatrists usally believe in such nonsense so as to prevent feeling cogntively dissonant about their overestimations of the efficacy of "drug therapy."PeterB wrote:and some types of depression do not respond to CBT or any kind of " talking therapy"
That depends on what's meant by "address."PeterB wrote:The clinical explanations of depression address a spectrum of causality.
Re: cause of depression
Hi Daniel,
Mike
I presume he means PeterB.danieLion wrote: Please cite a name, otherwise I'll treat this as hearsay.
Mike
Re: cause of depression
Not quite.cooran wrote:Hello all,
What is CBT?
http://www.aacbt.org/viewStory/WHAT+IS+CBT%3F" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
with metta
Chris
More specifically.
Introduction to Ellis' A Guide To Rational Living
Beck Institute for Cognitive Therapy
The Albert Ellis Institute
David D. Burns' Website
Cognitive Therapy Today
Rational Emotive Therapy Network
Aaron T. Beck
David D. Burns
Albert Ellis
Re: cause of depression
Indeed MIke...I am psychiatrist with nearly 25 years experience in the field..and along with many of my colleagues in the UK field I have used CBT for the last 12 years.mikenz66 wrote:Hi Daniel,I presume he means PeterB.danieLion wrote: Please cite a name, otherwise I'll treat this as hearsay.
Mike
Uner the British NHS system there is no gain financial or otherwise to be had for preferring one type of treatment over another.
CBT is a enormously useful tool. And it has its limits. It usually does not address to any great degree the group of depressive conditions that used to be called "endogenous " Which are frequently genetically linked and are more like diabetes than they are a " mental " condition in that they involve metabolic dysfunction.. And those conditions are not "statistically insignificant "..it is a large group.
It certainly makes a change to have a lay person OVER estimating the usefulness of a given intervention..!
But I am also long enough in the tooth to recognise a fixed belief when I encounter one. ..so I will leave it there.
Re: cause of depression
Thanks for sharing your knowledge, Peter. Good to see you posting again!
with metta
Chris
with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
Re: cause of depression
hi,
When i suffer depression it's usually because of unwise attention and lack of mindfulness.
I am either caught up in a destructive or negative thought pattern and lack the awareness to take one step back to assess things.
Depression can sometimes feel too overwhelming that i can't really practice mindfulness or even "assess it" (well i can't function really) so i usually counter it with something positive or feel good.Something that cheers me up without harming me like going to the amusement park or go out a have a picnic or some place with beautiful scenery and surroundings.Then when I've brought my mind back to normal i can meditate again which has a way of suppressing any harmful thoughts.And being mindful helps prevent depression because as soon as i realize i am about to enter the same old pattern i just stop and change route.
Depression exists because something else existed before that,if i can stop that something else from existing then i am good to go!
When i suffer depression it's usually because of unwise attention and lack of mindfulness.
I am either caught up in a destructive or negative thought pattern and lack the awareness to take one step back to assess things.
Depression can sometimes feel too overwhelming that i can't really practice mindfulness or even "assess it" (well i can't function really) so i usually counter it with something positive or feel good.Something that cheers me up without harming me like going to the amusement park or go out a have a picnic or some place with beautiful scenery and surroundings.Then when I've brought my mind back to normal i can meditate again which has a way of suppressing any harmful thoughts.And being mindful helps prevent depression because as soon as i realize i am about to enter the same old pattern i just stop and change route.
Depression exists because something else existed before that,if i can stop that something else from existing then i am good to go!
Life is preparing for Death