Attachment, aversion ignorance, three sides of the same

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Attachment, aversion ignorance, three sides of the same

Postby SarathW » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:29 am

Are attahment,aversion and ignorance, three sides of the same coin?

It was not easy for me to completely practice non attachment, so I thought that I will practice complete non aversion. It seems easy to me as, I do not have to forgo any thing. So I made a list of people who I do not like and stared practicing Metta (loving kindness) meditation. So I went through this list mentally every morning to see whether I am succeeding in my effort.

For my surprise I came to the realisation the most of the thing I hate are the most important in my life. These include me, my family, my work mates, my neighbours, my friends etc. It appears to me that anger is directly related to some form of attachment and very obviously due to ignorance.

Can I practice Metta meditation without eliminating attachment?
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Re: Attachment, aversion ignorance, three sides of the same

Postby DAWN » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:18 am

Great attachement brings great suffering.

By practicing metta rightly, naturaly you will develop detachement. Metta have detachement as its nature.
Last edited by DAWN on Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Attachment, aversion ignorance, three sides of the same

Postby pegembara » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:00 am

Attachment is related to aversion.

The more there is attachment, the more there is a possibility of aversion. It is hard to be angry at a complete stranger. It is also why betrayal is most likely to cause one to seek revenge.

Ignorance is not seeing the danger inherent in attachment. Attaching to romantic love, life, health, fame actually means attaching to the opposites of hate, death and sickness. Due to impermanence of all conditions everything is inherently unstable. These things come as a package. You can't have one without the other.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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Re: Attachment, aversion ignorance, three sides of the same

Postby DAWN » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:25 am

There is no hate, there is wrong love.

I dont hate the police, i love my self to much.
I dont hate my neighbour, i love my self to much.
...

:jedi:

:hug:
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Re: Attachment, aversion ignorance, three sides of the same

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:19 am

SarathW wrote:Are attahment,aversion and ignorance, three sides of the same coin?


I think craving and aversion are 2 sides of the coin of ignorance.

Heads or tails? ;)
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Re: Attachment, aversion ignorance, three sides of the same

Postby SarathW » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:14 pm

Hi Porpoise
Good thinking!
If you could inflate a coin what you will get is a round ball. So there is no head or tail.
What you get is “one world of ignorance”
;)
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Re: Attachment, aversion ignorance, three sides of the same

Postby SarathW » Thu May 22, 2014 12:27 am

These two terms, suggestive of a duality, remind us of the water pump
we mentioned in our discussion of the vortex.19 There is nothing really
automatic even in a water pump, which takes in and throws out. Due to
these two aspects in the mechanism of a water pump, we call it a unit.
From the point of view of a water pump, it is capable of performing both
functions. It is from this point of view that we attribute a unitary
significance to it. In this very concept of a unit, one can discern the
delusion involved.
Delusion is the apex of the vicious triangle greed, hate and delusion.
Greed and hate are the two feelers directed from the apex delusion.
Though we regard them as two functions, the taking in and throwing out
are simply two aspects of the same function. All this points to the depth of
the idea of duality and to the vortex simile, which our commentarial
tradition seems to have ignored.

P600
http://www.seeingthroughthenet.net/file ... led_VI.pdf
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Re: Attachment, aversion ignorance, three sides of the same

Postby Kim OHara » Thu May 22, 2014 1:17 am

SarathW wrote:Are attahment,aversion and ignorance, three sides of the same coin?

I wouldn't put it that way but they are inextricably entangled, as others have already pointed out.
One good illustration of that is their depiction in the Tibetan Buddhist "Wheel of Life", nestled together at the centre of the wheel, e.g.
http://ichinensanzen.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/samsara1.jpg
Well, at the very centre hub we will see a pig, snake and bird consuming each other. These represent the Three Poisons of ignorance (pig), greed (rooster) and anger (snake). Please note that these Three Poisons are also known as ignorance, desire/attachment and aversion. The black and white ring around these represent Karma, where figures on the white side are “ascending to higher realms of existence because of virtuous actions” and figures on the black side are “descending to lower realms of existence because of evil or ignorant actions”.
(More at http://ichinensanzen.ca/the-three-poisons-ignorance-greed-and-anger/)
I'm sure the same basic teaching appears in Theravada but I don't know quite where, and I haven't seen any similar imagery.

:namaste:
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Re: Attachment, aversion ignorance, three sides of the same

Postby chownah » Thu May 22, 2014 1:29 am

Do not spend the coin of ignorance.....you don't want anything which can be bought with it.
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Re: Attachment, aversion ignorance, three sides of the same

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu May 22, 2014 8:39 am

chownah wrote:Do not spend the coin of ignorance.....you don't want anything which can be bought with it.
chownah


They do say that the wages of sin are death. ;)
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Re: Attachment, aversion ignorance, three sides of the same

Postby Ananda26 » Thu May 22, 2014 3:03 pm

SarathW wrote:Are attahment,aversion and ignorance, three sides of the same coin?

It was not easy for me to completely practice non attachment, so I thought that I will practice complete non aversion. It seems easy to me as, I do not have to forgo any thing. So I made a list of people who I do not like and stared practicing Metta (loving kindness) meditation. So I went through this list mentally every morning to see whether I am succeeding in my effort.

For my surprise I came to the realisation the most of the thing I hate are the most important in my life. These include me, my family, my work mates, my neighbours, my friends etc. It appears to me that anger is directly related to some form of attachment and very obviously due to ignorance.

Can I practice Metta meditation without eliminating attachment?


Here is a discourse which describes loving kindness as helpful for abandoing ill will.

Ahara Sutta: Food
(For the Factors for Awakening)

"Monks, I will teach you the feeding & starving of the five hindrances & of the seven factors for Awakening. Listen & pay close attention. I will speak...

Feeding the Hindrances
"And what is the food for the arising of unarisen sensual desire, or for the growth & increase of sensual desire once it has arisen? There is the theme of beauty. To foster inappropriate attention to it: This is the food for the arising of unarisen sensual desire, or for the growth & increase of sensual desire once it has arisen.

"And what is the food for the arising of unarisen ill will, or for the growth & increase of ill will once it has arisen? There is the theme of resistance. To foster inappropriate attention to it: This is the food for the arising of unarisen ill will, or for the growth & increase of ill will once it has arisen.

"And what is the food for the arising of unarisen sloth & drowsiness, or for the growth & increase of sloth & drowsiness once it has arisen? There are boredom, weariness, yawning, drowsiness after a meal, & sluggishness of awareness. To foster inappropriate attention to them: This is the food for the arising of unarisen sloth & drowsiness, or for the growth & increase of sloth & drowsiness once it has arisen.

"And what is the food for the arising of unarisen restlessness & anxiety, or for the growth & increase of restlessness & anxiety once it has arisen? There is non-stillness of awareness. To foster inappropriate attention to that: This is the food for the arising of unarisen restlessness & anxiety, or for the growth & increase of restlessness & anxiety once it has arisen.

"And what is the food for the arising of unarisen uncertainty, or for the growth & increase of uncertainty once it has arisen? There are phenomena that act as a foothold for uncertainty. To foster inappropriate attention to them: This is the food for the arising of unarisen uncertainty, or for the growth & increase of uncertainty once it has arisen.

Feeding the Factors for Awakening
"Now, what is the food for the arising of unarisen mindfulness as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of mindfulness as a factor for Awakening once it has arisen? There are mental qualities that act as a foothold for mindfulness as a factor for Awakening [well-purified virtue & views made straight]. To foster appropriate attention to them: This is the food for the arising of unarisen mindfulness as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of mindfulness as a factor for Awakening once it has arisen.

"And what is the food for the arising of unarisen analysis of qualities as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of analysis of qualities... once it has arisen? There are mental qualities that are skillful & unskillful, blameworthy & blameless, gross & refined, siding with darkness & with light. To foster appropriate attention to them: This is the food for the arising of unarisen analysis of qualities as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of analysis of qualities... once it has arisen.

"And what is the food for the arising of unarisen persistence as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of persistence... once it has arisen? There is the potential for effort, the potential for exertion, the potential for striving. To foster appropriate attention to them: This is the food for the arising of unarisen persistence as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of persistence... once it has arisen.

"And what is the food for the arising of unarisen rapture as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of rapture... once it has arisen? There are mental qualities that act as a foothold for rapture as a factor for Awakening. To foster appropriate attention to them: This is the food for the arising of unarisen rapture as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of rapture... once it has arisen.

"And what is the food for the arising of unarisen serenity as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of serenity... once it has arisen? There is physical serenity & there is mental serenity. To foster appropriate attention to them: This is the food for the arising of unarisen serenity as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of serenity... once it has arisen.

"And what is the food for the arising of unarisen concentration as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of concentration... once it has arisen? There are themes for calm, themes for non-distraction [these are the four frames of reference]. To foster appropriate attention to them: This is the food for the arising of unarisen concentration as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of concentration... once it has arisen.

"And what is the food for the arising of unarisen equanimity as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of equanimity... once it has arisen? There are mental qualities that act as a foothold for equanimity as a factor for Awakening. To foster appropriate attention to them: This is the food for the arising of unarisen equanimity as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of equanimity as a factor for Awakening once it has arisen.

Starving the Hindrances
"Now, what is lack of food for the arising of unarisen sensual desire, or for the growth & increase of sensual desire once it has arisen? There is the theme of unattractiveness. To foster appropriate attention to it: This is lack of food for the arising of unarisen sensual desire, or for the growth & increase of sensual desire once it has arisen.

And what is lack of food for the arising of unarisen ill will, or for the growth & increase of ill will once it has arisen? There is awareness-release.[1] To foster appropriate attention to that: This is lack of food for the arising of unarisen ill will, or for the growth & increase of ill will once it has arisen.

"And what is lack of food for the arising of unarisen sloth & drowsiness, or for the growth & increase of sloth & drowsiness once it has arisen? There is the potential for effort, the potential for exertion, the potential for striving. To foster appropriate attention to them: This is lack of food for the arising of unarisen sloth & drowsiness, or for the growth & increase of sloth & drowsiness once it has arisen.

"And what is lack of food for the arising of unarisen restlessness & anxiety, or for the growth & increase of restlessness & anxiety once it has arisen? There is the stilling of awareness. To foster appropriate attention to that: This is lack of food for the arising of unarisen restlessness & anxiety, or for the growth & increase of restlessness & anxiety once it has arisen.

"And what is lack of food for the arising of unarisen uncertainty, or for the growth & increase of uncertainty once it has arisen? There are mental qualities that are skillful & unskillful, blameworthy & blameless, gross & refined, siding with darkness & with light. To foster appropriate attention to them: This is lack of food for the arising of unarisen uncertainty, or for the growth & increase of uncertainty once it has arisen.

Starving the Factors for Awakening
"Now, what is lack of food for the arising of unarisen mindfulness as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of mindfulness as a factor for Awakening once it has arisen? There are mental qualities that act as a foothold for mindfulness as a factor for Awakening. Not fostering attention to them: This is lack of food for the arising of unarisen mindfulness as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of mindfulness as a factor for Awakening once it has arisen.

"And what is lack of food for the arising of unarisen analysis of qualities as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of analysis of qualities... once it has arisen? There are mental qualities that are skillful & unskillful, blameworthy & blameless, gross & refined, siding with darkness & with light. Not fostering attention to them: This is lack of food for the arising of unarisen analysis of qualities as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of analysis of qualities... once it has arisen.

"And what is lack of food for the arising of unarisen persistence as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of persistence... once it has arisen? There is the potential for effort, the potential for exertion, the potential for striving. Not fostering attention to them: This is lack of food for the arising of unarisen persistence as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of persistence... once it has arisen.

"And what is lack of food for the arising of unarisen rapture as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of rapture... once it has arisen? There are mental qualities that act as a foothold for rapture as a factor for Awakening. Not fostering attention to them: This is lack of food for the arising of unarisen rapture as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of rapture... once it has arisen.

"And what is lack of food for the arising of unarisen serenity as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of serenity... once it has arisen? There is bodily serenity & there is mental serenity. To foster inappropriate attention to them: This is lack of food for the arising of unarisen serenity as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of serenity... once it has arisen.

"And what is lack of food for the arising of unarisen concentration as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of concentration... once it has arisen? There are the themes for concentration, themes for non-confusion. Not fostering attention to them: This is lack of food for the arising of unarisen concentration as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of concentration... once it has arisen.

"And what is lack of food for the arising of unarisen equanimity as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of equanimity as a factor for Awakening once it has arisen? There are mental qualities that act as a foothold for equanimity as a factor for Awakening. Not fostering attention to them: This is lack of food for the arising of unarisen equanimity as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of equanimity as a factor for Awakening once it has arisen."


For an Arahant who has abandoned clinging it is impossible that he would deliberately deprive a living being of life. So of course that is very helpful for abandoning ill-will.

So ,of course, abandoning clinging, aversion, and ignorance is very helpful.
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