Good post, but your last sentence seems to contradict your first paragraph?Bakmoon wrote:To me at least, the suttas are a kind of measuring stick. When we hear various teachings, we check them against the suttas to see if they are consistent. If they are, then that teacher is safe to learn from, but if they contradict the suttas, it should raise a red flag and tell us that we should exercise some caution with that particular teacher.
I don't think it is a healthy attitude however to insist that everything a teacher says has to be derivable directly from the suttas as of course, the suttas don't have a lot of detail. Consistency should be our standard, not derivability.
Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.
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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.
What I mean is this: A lot of times, the suttas don't give quite enough detail on how to do things for someone to be able to just pick up the suttas and practice, so it should be okay for us to go to a teacher and ask them for more detailed advice on how to practice something. When we do, we should make sure what they say doesn't contradict the suttas, but we can't ask for them to prove from the suttas every last detail of their advice because the suttas don't always give that level of detail. As long as nothing contradicts, you should be okay.porpoise wrote:Good post, but your last sentence seems to contradict your first paragraph?Bakmoon wrote:To me at least, the suttas are a kind of measuring stick. When we hear various teachings, we check them against the suttas to see if they are consistent. If they are, then that teacher is safe to learn from, but if they contradict the suttas, it should raise a red flag and tell us that we should exercise some caution with that particular teacher.
I don't think it is a healthy attitude however to insist that everything a teacher says has to be derivable directly from the suttas as of course, the suttas don't have a lot of detail. Consistency should be our standard, not derivability.
The non-doing of any evil,
The performance of what's skillful,
The cleansing of one's own mind:
This is the Buddhas' teaching.
The performance of what's skillful,
The cleansing of one's own mind:
This is the Buddhas' teaching.
Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.
It's more than OK, it's probably essential for most of us, and clearly recommended by the Buddha: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Bakmoon wrote: What I mean is this: A lot of times, the suttas don't give quite enough detail on how to do things for someone to be able to just pick up the suttas and practice, so it should be okay for us to go to a teacher and ask them for more detailed advice on how to practice something.
Sure, but I'd be careful about too much looking for contradictions until you've actually practised with a teacher for a while. In my experience, understanding what the suttas is built on practice, rather than the other way around.Bakmoon wrote: When we do, we should make sure what they say doesn't contradict the suttas, but we can't ask for them to prove from the suttas every last detail of their advice because the suttas don't always give that level of detail. As long as nothing contradicts, you should be okay.
Mike
Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.
In my experience, the suttas are a meditation guide, so practise is both way round (like a feedback loop).mikenz66 wrote:In my experience, understanding what the suttas is built on practice, rather than the other way around.
If any likable teacher were enough to teach Dhamma (rather than only point out what personal hindrance may be the strongest), the Buddha wouldn't have advised to check and re-check what is taught against the suttas.
Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.
Hi Nibbuti,
Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. A feedback loop is a good way to explain it.
My point was that it would be a mistake to jump to conclusions too quickly about what exactly the Buddha, teachers, ancient, or modern, are saying, without trying it out.
Personally, I have found having good teachers to give guidance essential. I am impressed that some can extract enough information from the suttas alone to practice effectively. I've not met such a practitioner in person.
Mike
Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. A feedback loop is a good way to explain it.
My point was that it would be a mistake to jump to conclusions too quickly about what exactly the Buddha, teachers, ancient, or modern, are saying, without trying it out.
Personally, I have found having good teachers to give guidance essential. I am impressed that some can extract enough information from the suttas alone to practice effectively. I've not met such a practitioner in person.
Mike
Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.
i agree with alan totally.
but, buddha said, ' there are few with little dust in their eyes'.
i have come across many who do not think that the suttas are important.
they cherry-pick what they like about buddhism.
but that is human nature, what can you do?
i have come to accept that many people are not too keen to
know what buddha really taught.
i have compassion for these people.
but, buddha said, ' there are few with little dust in their eyes'.
i have come across many who do not think that the suttas are important.
they cherry-pick what they like about buddhism.
but that is human nature, what can you do?
i have come to accept that many people are not too keen to
know what buddha really taught.
i have compassion for these people.
Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.
But maybe the dhamma would.alan wrote:Friends,
Buddhism would not exist without the Suttas. ...
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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.
How?ground wrote:But maybe the dhamma would.alan wrote:Friends,
Buddhism would not exist without the Suttas. ...
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.
Do you affirm that it would exist or negate that it would exist? (Please note the "maybe")tiltbillings wrote:How?ground wrote:But maybe the dhamma would.alan wrote:Friends,
Buddhism would not exist without the Suttas. ...
Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.
I agree. It can be very easy to misunderstand what a teacher is saying if you don't actually try it out, and even if something seems to contradict, you should try to see if there is a way to resolve such a contradiction instead of just rejecting what that teacher is saying.mikenz66 wrote:Bakmoon wrote:Sure, but I'd be careful about too much looking for contradictions until you've actually practised with a teacher for a while. In my experience, understanding what the suttas is built on practice, rather than the other way around.Bakmoon wrote: When we do, we should make sure what they say doesn't contradict the suttas, but we can't ask for them to prove from the suttas every last detail of their advice because the suttas don't always give that level of detail. As long as nothing contradicts, you should be okay.
Mike
The non-doing of any evil,
The performance of what's skillful,
The cleansing of one's own mind:
This is the Buddhas' teaching.
The performance of what's skillful,
The cleansing of one's own mind:
This is the Buddhas' teaching.
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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.
This OP is a bit unusual to me. I haven't found anyone on here that has "disregarded the suttas"...
what a strange thing to say...
may all be well
what a strange thing to say...
may all be well
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"
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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.
As usual, word games.ground wrote: Do you affirm that it would exist or negate that it would exist? (Please note the "maybe")
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.
I would call it a suggestion rather than word game. It is just that an assertion of the kind "it is [this or that]" is missing and it is left to the reader.tiltbillings wrote:As usual, word games.ground wrote: Do you affirm that it would exist or negate that it would exist? (Please note the "maybe")
- tiltbillings
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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.
In other words: word games.ground wrote:I would call it a suggestion rather than word game. It is just that an assertion of the kind "it is [this or that]" is missing and it is left to the reader.tiltbillings wrote:As usual, word games.ground wrote: Do you affirm that it would exist or negate that it would exist? (Please note the "maybe")
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.
You may call the suggestion as you like.tiltbillings wrote:In other words: word games.ground wrote:I would call it a suggestion rather than word game. It is just that an assertion of the kind "it is [this or that]" is missing and it is left to the reader.tiltbillings wrote:As usual, word games.