Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

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Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Postby SarathW » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:39 am

Can someone tell me what exactly Buddha said about illusion. Did he say that world (five aggregate) is an illusion (Maya)?

I am reading a book called The Buddha’s Ancient Path by Ven Piyadassi Thero. page 56 it says:

In regard to Kassapa’s question Buddha said “Surely, Kassapa, suffering is not non-existent. Suffering is”

Does it mean that suffering is not an illusion?

If world is an illusion why Buddha asked us to practice Metta?
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Postby daverupa » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:56 am

SN 22.95 wrote:Form is like a glob of foam; feeling, a bubble; perception, a mirage; fabrications, a banana tree; consciousness, a magic trick — this has been taught by the Kinsman of the Sun. However you observe them, appropriately examine them, they're empty, void to whoever sees them appropriately.


Suffering does exist; the world is not an illusion, but it is empty.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:04 pm

daverupa wrote: but it is empty.
Of what?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Postby daverupa » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:09 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
daverupa wrote: but it is empty.
Of what?


Of a self or that which belongs to a self.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Postby m0rl0ck » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:54 pm

Then who / what suffers?
There is no comfort without pain; thus
we define salvation through suffering.
-- Cato
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:59 pm

m0rl0ck wrote:Then who / what suffers?
You do.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Postby m0rl0ck » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:25 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
m0rl0ck wrote:Then who / what suffers?
You do.


:rofl:
There is no comfort without pain; thus
we define salvation through suffering.
-- Cato
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Postby daverupa » Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:19 pm

Just suffering arises, just suffering ceases.

SN 12.15 wrote:"By & large, Kaccayana, this world is in bondage to attachments, clingings (sustenances), & biases. But one such as this does not get involved with or cling to these attachments, clingings, fixations of awareness, biases, or obsessions; nor is he resolved on 'my self.' He has no uncertainty or doubt that just stress, when arising, is arising; stress, when passing away, is passing away. In this, his knowledge is independent of others. It's to this extent, Kaccayana, that there is right view.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:23 pm

daverupa wrote:Just suffering arises, just suffering ceases.
With such insight, such would be your knowledge; you will no longer have dukkha.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Postby Viscid » Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:28 pm

:popcorn:
"What holds attention determines action." - William James
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:39 pm

Viscid wrote::popcorn:
And you are eating popcorn.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Postby daverupa » Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:41 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Viscid wrote::popcorn:
And you are eating popcorn.


Empty calories...
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:44 pm

daverupa wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Viscid wrote::popcorn:
And you are eating popcorn.


Empty calories...
All the better to become more expansive.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Postby Viscid » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:38 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
daverupa wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:And you are eating popcorn.


Empty calories...
All the better to become more expansive.

Expansiveness is suffering. :(
"What holds attention determines action." - William James
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Postby SarathW » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:52 am

daverupa wrote:
SN 22.95 wrote:Form is like a glob of foam; feeling, a bubble; perception, a mirage; fabrications, a banana tree; consciousness, a magic trick — this has been taught by the Kinsman of the Sun. However you observe them, appropriately examine them, they're empty, void to whoever sees them appropriately.


Suffering does exist; the world is not an illusion, but it is empty.


Hi Daverupa
Thanks for the link. The pali word "Maya" means magic trick. However it is translate to english as illusion. The world mean the five aggregate in Buddhism. So Buddha said consiousness is an illusion!
Hence world should be an illusion too!
Dukkha (Suffering) also refered to five aggregate. So Dukkha cant be real!
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Postby polarbuddha101 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:23 am

SarathW wrote:
daverupa wrote:
SN 22.95 wrote:Form is like a glob of foam; feeling, a bubble; perception, a mirage; fabrications, a banana tree; consciousness, a magic trick — this has been taught by the Kinsman of the Sun. However you observe them, appropriately examine them, they're empty, void to whoever sees them appropriately.


Suffering does exist; the world is not an illusion, but it is empty.


Hi Daverupa
Thanks for the link. The pali word "Maya" means magic trick. However it is translate to english as illusion. The world mean the five aggregate in Buddhism. So Buddha said consiousness is an illusion!
Hence world should be an illusion too!
Dukkha (Suffering) also refered to five aggregate. So Dukkha cant be real!


When did the Buddha ever say the world was Maya? I've never come across the Buddha saying such in the suttas and from my understanding the Buddha wouldn't say such a thing. The concept of Maya is that all the changing phenomena of the world is an illusion and behind it all is brahma, the Atman or Atta, the unchanging ground of being that is our true self and the Buddha teaches anatta or anatman so maya is hindu not buddhist (as far as I know).
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Postby SarathW » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:51 am

Hi Polar
Thanks. Please read the following link


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_(illusion)

What do you think about the follwoing in relation to my question:

the Buddha is not affected one way or the other by the illusion. Beyond conceptuality, the Buddha is neither attached nor non-attached. This is the middle way of Buddhism, which explicitly refutes the extremes of both eternalism and nihilism.
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:58 am

SarathW wrote:Hi Polar
Thanks. Please read the following link


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_(illusion)

What do you think about the follwoing in relation to my question:

the Buddha is not affected one way or the other by the illusion. Beyond conceptuality, the Buddha is neither attached nor non-attached. This is the middle way of Buddhism, which explicitly refutes the extremes of both eternalism and nihilism.

The Buddha in the suttas does not say that the world is an illusion.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Postby SarathW » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:28 am

Hi Tilt
Do you know the pali word use in Sutta for "Magic Trick"?
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Postby ground » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:00 am

The Blessed One said, "What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html


From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications. From fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness. ...
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html


:sage:
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