tiltbillings wrote:I am not so much worried about the "common paralance" understanding of mindfulness. That has been debated in a number of different threads. It is, however, the nasty robertk characterization of "tedious focusing" and what follows that that binocular echos: "I agree that what is thought to be mindfulness in common parlance is often some type of tedious focusing on an approximation of the here and now, it is merely concentration." Robertk's OP statement: "But what is thought to be mindfulness in common parlance is often some type of tedious focussing on an approximation of the here and now. This is merely concentration, without any sati or panna, and is a wrong path." It is an ungrounded assertion and a wholesale dismissal of a path of practice.
TOS: Please refrain from wholesale dismissal of a particular view, approach, or teaching style.
It seems there is a history you have with Robert K that I am not aware of. So I can't comment on that.
Myself, I am refering only to the parts I quoted. Note that I have left out the "without any sati or panna, and is a wrong path" - because I don't know about that.
tiltbillings wrote:binocular wrote:I agree that what is thought to be mindfulness in common parlance is often some type of tedious focusing on an approximation of the here and now, it is merely concentration.
You have, however, not shown that to be the case, nor has robertk is his attempt at dismissing any sort of meditation practice.
I didn't get the impression that Robert was dismissing all sorts of meditation practice, at least not in the posts I'm referring to. I did get the impression that he doesn't think very highly of mindfulness practice
as it is understood in common parlance. On this point, I agree with him.
I am very skeptical about the practices taught by, say, Pema Chodron, Tara Brach, Jon Kabat-Zinn or Thich Nhat Hanh, and by some Western psychologists. My first impression is that they seem to be teaching a sophisticated nihilism. However, and this is important, I recognize that their practices may benefit some people, depending on where on the path those people are.
For example, I recently worked with a
book on emotional eating by a Western therapist. Mindfulness is one of the tools taught there. I found the approach tedious and unproductive and was very angry and disappointed with it. But eventually, it occured to me that this kind of approach to mindfulness is probably good for people who are not sure about the standards by which to discern and judge. I assume that for such people, "just being mindful," "just paying attention," "non-judgmentally observing the present moment" does have a positive effect, bringing them some calm and insight.