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Why did Buddhism (and not Jainism etc) die out in India? - Dhamma Wheel

Why did Buddhism (and not Jainism etc) die out in India?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Bankei
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Why did Buddhism (and not Jainism etc) die out in India?

Postby Bankei » Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:24 am

Hi

I have been wondering. Why do you think it was only Buddhism that died out in India while other religions such as Brahmanism or Hinduism or Jainism survive?

Surely the Muslim invasion should have wiped out the other 'idolatrous' religions too.

Tantric corruption doesn't adequately explain it either as Hindu trantra survived.

Any ideas?

Bankei
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Bankei

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retrofuturist
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Re: Why did Buddhism (and not Jainism etc) die out in India?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:34 am

Greetings,

Jains now consider themselves a subset of Hinduism.

Buddhism however, despite all attempts by Hindus to denote the Buddha as a God, would not be subsumed into Hinduism.

That's the 20 second answer... if you want a better answer see "Brahmanism,Buddhism & Hinduism" by Lal Mani Joshi.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

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Re: Why did Buddhism (and not Jainism etc) die out in India?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:43 am


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Re: Why did Buddhism (and not Jainism etc) die out in India?

Postby Individual » Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:59 am

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Re: Why did Buddhism (and not Jainism etc) die out in India?

Postby jcsuperstar » Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:18 am

are jains against the caste system? where there ever jain kings who replaced hindu kings and got rid of the caste system?
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the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: Why did Buddhism (and not Jainism etc) die out in India?

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:52 pm

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Re: Why did Buddhism (and not Jainism etc) die out in India?

Postby MMK23 » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:33 am


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Re: Why did Buddhism (and not Jainism etc) die out in India?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:40 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Why did Buddhism (and not Jainism etc) die out in India?

Postby jcsuperstar » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:27 am

in india jains are considered hindu, but hinduism isnt one single religion they have many different beliefs so really hinduism is many different religions so why not jains as well?

but the point to my questions above was was jainism ever the threat to the status quo that buddhism was? and i think the answer is no.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: Why did Buddhism (and not Jainism etc) die out in India?

Postby MMK23 » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:46 am


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Re: Why did Buddhism (and not Jainism etc) die out in India?

Postby Bankei » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:57 pm

Hinduism really refers to many religions - it is an umbrella term. I have Indian friends who have expressed surprise when I claimed Jainism was a separate religion. I was told the Jains are a specific caste.

But we all know that Buddhism and Jainism are separate religions with completely different philosophies to 'hinduism' and to each other. This caliming everything is hinduism may be due to the influence of Hindu nationalists in recent years.
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Bankei

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Re: Why did Buddhism (and not Jainism etc) die out in India?

Postby Bankei » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:32 pm

I am not sure it would be a good argument that Buddhism upset the status quo by opposing the caste system. From early on in Sri Lanka Buddhism embraced the caste system - of Buddhists did. This possibly occurred in India too because it was so entrenched in the society.

I am not sure of the Jain stance on Caste, but these days they seem to be a caste class themselves.

There is an article available which sounds interesting, but I don't have access:
Jaini, Padmanabh S. 1980 "The disappearance of Buddhism and the survival of Jainism: a study in contrast," in edited by A.K. Narain, _Studies in the History of Buddhism_ (Delhi: B.R. Publishing Corporation,
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Bankei

vitellius
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Re: Why did Buddhism (and not Jainism etc) die out in India?

Postby vitellius » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:08 am

There was another samana religion that once was widespread in India and died out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajivika

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Re: Why did Buddhism (and not Jainism etc) die out in India?

Postby greenjuice » Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:52 pm


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Re: Why did Buddhism (and not Jainism etc) die out in India?

Postby mahat » Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:14 pm

There were various reasons, however the biggest one was probably the spread of the 500 year expiration date rumor, the "Dharma declining age" was the main reason. You read the Mahayana Sutras and it's like how do you stop the Dhamma from ending? That fear started the search in Tantra, mantra and you saw the rise of the Mahayana.

The predominance of Mahayana, also proved to be a weakness since Theravada would have monks and nuns who would constantly engage the public during their alms round and speak to them about the Dhamma, whereas the Mahayana monks stopped doing that for some reason even though the Vinaya required it…they sat in their monasteries with very little interaction with the public. This allowed Brahmins to gain public support.

The international status of Buddhism brought about a huge jealousy amongst brahmins that "foreigner" Buddhists such as Hsuan-tsang could defeat the Brahmins in debate. They had fomented an uprising against the king at the time in North India, Harsh Vardhana.

Hinduism came as an Indian nationalist umbrella religion of various non-Buddhist sects who agreed to hold the brahmanical Vedas as supreme and tried to integrate Buddha into Indian religion as a Vishnu Avatar. To this day Hinduism is a nationalist movement.

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Re: Why did Buddhism (and not Jainism etc) die out in India?

Postby Dhammanando » Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:46 pm

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Re: Why did Buddhism (and not Jainism etc) die out in India?

Postby dagon » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:45 am


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Re: Why did Buddhism (and not Jainism etc) die out in India?

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:05 am

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Re: Why did Buddhism (and not Jainism etc) die out in India?

Postby Kusala » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:06 am

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Re: Why did Buddhism (and not Jainism etc) die out in India?

Postby Dhammanando » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:50 am



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