The nature of Nibbana
Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:54 am
In the state of deep sleep there is no desire, no attachment, nothing at all but oblivious bliss. Can this be likened to Nibbana?
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I think the great about liberation is the ability to handle the most difficult situations in life with wisdom, compassion and equanimity.Disciple wrote:In the state of deep sleep there is no desire, no attachment, nothing at all but oblivious bliss. Can this be likened to Nibbana?
I agree but what does this have to to do with the question I posed...Dan74 wrote:I think the great about liberation is the ability to handle the most difficult situations in life with wisdom, compassion and equanimity.Disciple wrote:In the state of deep sleep there is no desire, no attachment, nothing at all but oblivious bliss. Can this be likened to Nibbana?
Is it not correct to say when in "deep sleep" one is not conscious ?.....so, then how can there be bliss or even Nibbana(if)?.....so does the laptop experiences bliss and Nibbana at all times?Disciple wrote:In the state of deep sleep there is no desire, no attachment, nothing at all but oblivious bliss. Can this be likened to Nibbana?
Well, in deep sleep, in a coma, or zonked out on a cushion, one is hardly able to face the challenges and respond appropriately?Disciple wrote:I agree but what does this have to to do with the question I posed...Dan74 wrote:I think the great about liberation is the ability to handle the most difficult situations in life with wisdom, compassion and equanimity.Disciple wrote:In the state of deep sleep there is no desire, no attachment, nothing at all but oblivious bliss. Can this be likened to Nibbana?
That may be said if it is felt as if challenge would be objective. However one may question if that may be said when seeing the dependent arising of challenge. If one sees objective challenge and the other does not what sense does it make that the former comparatively projects his alleged adequate response to challenge onto the idea of someone who does not see challenge?Dan74 wrote: Well, in deep sleep, in a coma, or zonked out on a cushion, one is hardly able to face the challenges and respond appropriately?
If one considers the idea of nibbana to cover the idea of a state without desire, attachment then this idea of deep sleep may cover the same characterising "added on" ideas. The idea of bliss however appears strange in the context of both ideas, nibbbana and deep sleep.Disciple wrote:In the state of deep sleep there is no desire, no attachment, nothing at all but oblivious bliss. Can this be likened to Nibbana?
In deep sleep there can also be wet dreams and nightmares. I don't think those are part of nibbanaDisciple wrote:In the state of deep sleep there is no desire, no attachment, nothing at all but oblivious bliss.
You are correct as per my understanding.Coyote wrote:But the radiant consciousness is not Nibbana itself, am I understanding correctly? It is consciousness pure enough to be able to understand without ignorance, and therefore attain Nibbana, but the mind itself is not Nibbana, right?
i would recommend reading, The Island: An Anthology of the Buddha's Teachings on Nibbana, by Ajahn Pasanno & Ajahn Amaro. i have read lots of Buddhist literature and have found this to be the most helpful concerning Nibbana.Disciple wrote:In the state of deep sleep there is no desire, no attachment, nothing at all but oblivious bliss. Can this be likened to Nibbana?
The way people think is that having been born, they don't want to die. Is that correct? It's like pouring water into a glass but not wanting it to fill up. If you keep pouring the water, you can't expect it not to be full. But people think like this: they are born but don't want to die. Is that correct thinking? Consider it. If people are born but never die, will that bring happiness? If no one who comes into the world dies, things will be a lot worse. If no one ever dies, we will probably all end up eating excrement! Where would we all stay? It's like pouring water into the glass without ceasing yet still not wanting it to be full. We really ought to think things through. We are born but don't want to die. If we really don't want to die, we should realize the deathless (amatadhamma), as the Buddha taught. Do you know what amatadhamma means?
It is the deathless - though you die, if you have wisdom it is as if you don't die. Not dying, not being born. That's where things can be finished. Being born and wishing for happiness and enjoyment without dying is not the correct way at all. But that's what people want, so there is no end of suffering for them. The practitioner of Dhamma does not suffer. Well, practitioners such as ordinary monks still suffer, because they haven't yet fulfilled the path of practice. They haven't realized amatadhamma, so they still suffer. They are still subject to death.
Amatadhamma is the deathless. Born of the womb, can we avoid death? Apart from realizing that there is no real self, there is no way to avoid death. ''I'' don't die; sankhāras undergo transformation, following their nature.
Ajahn Chah
'Open are the doors to theI think that the discovery that we do not die is the most valuable and important discovery made in the history of the human race. Is there any other discovery that can match it? Even to call it the most valuable and important world heritage is insufficient. However, unfortunately, most of the great number of people living in the world do not know of this great discovery. Whenever the New Year comes people think they have grown a year older and a year closer to death. But this is a big mistake. Where is that which has grown a year older, where is that which has made another step toward death? Shakyamuni pursued this question relentlessly. And he realized that this thing called the “self” had neither shadow nor form nor color nor smell nor weight nor anything at all. He realized that this “self” was no more than an image that human beings had arbitrarily produced in their heads. If “self” and “person” are no more than concepts, then “the death of a person” is no more than a concept formed from the workings of the mind. One speaks of “dying” but the “one” dying does not exist. To put it clearly, from the start “death” itself does not exist.
And, to push the argument even further, what has just been said about “death” applies in just the same way to “life.” If death does not exist, then one cannot say that life exists. In the statement above I made about Shakyamuni’s discovery let me replace the word “death” with “life”. “To put it very simply we can say that Shakyamuni’s discovery was that ‘we are not born’.”
Life and death are concepts; life and death have no substance. Nevertheless, most people find this hard to believe. Yet, life and death really do not exist. To express the essence of life and death, one can say being happy is life and being sad is death. Being in pain is life and being content is death. Walking is life and running is death. The rain falling is life and good weather is death. Mountains are life and rivers are death.
Yamada Ryoun- abbot of Sanbo-Kyodan