Ajahn Brahm for sale?

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Cittasanto
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Cittasanto »

tiltbillings wrote:Naughty Ajahn Brahm. Literalist Cittasanto.
Literalistic? do I say they shouldn't have the multi-million dollar complex they are planning? no, I am saying they shouldn't make the life and status they have a commodity for sale to the highest bidder.
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
santa100
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by santa100 »

tiltbillings wrote:
Well, then they have something of interest inside themselves to consider.
It doesn't have to start that way if the lay staff does it instead of the venerable..
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Cittasanto »

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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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tiltbillings
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by tiltbillings »

Cittasanto wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Naughty Ajahn Brahm. Literalist Cittasanto.
Literalistic? do I say they shouldn't have the multi-million dollar complex they are planning? no, I am saying they shouldn't make the life and status they have a commodity for sale to the highest bidder.
That is your interpretation and opinion, but opinions -- and that is what is being expressed here -- obviously vary.

I would say to those here whose noses are a bit bent by what Ven B is doing, get together and drop him a line expressing your opinions about his choice of behavior. Obviously the issue is not going to be solved by all the back and forth going on here.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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tiltbillings
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by tiltbillings »

santa100 wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Well, then they have something of interest inside themselves to consider.
It doesn't have to start that way if the lay staff does it instead of the venerable..
What are you really objecting to here?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by mikenz66 »

Dan74 wrote:I thought this was quite common practice anyway, in that monks would spend time with the largest benefactors.
Indeed, there are passages like this all over the suttas:
"May Master Gotama, together with the community of monks, acquiesce to my offer of tomorrow's meal."
The Blessed One acquiesced with silence.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
King Kiki Kàsiràjà took a low seat and siting said thus to the Blessed One [Former Buddha Kassapa]: Venerable sir, may the Blessed One accept to spend the rains in Benares, I will attend on the Blessed One and the community in this manner. The Blessed One Kassapa perfect and rightfully enlightened said I have already accepted to spend the rains. King Kiki Kàsiràjà entreated the Blessed One up to the third time and the Blessed One Kassapa said I have already accepted to spend the rains. Then king Kiki Kàsiràjà was displeased and unpleasant, thinking, the Blessed One Kassapa perfect rightfully enlightened does not accept my invitation. He asked the Blessed One Kassapa. Venerable sir, is there some other enticing supporter? Great king, in the chief village, Vebhalinga there is a potter named Ghatikara, he is my chief supporter.
http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pit ... ra-e1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It should be clear to anyone with more than a casual involvement that the millions of dollars it takes to build and support even modest monasteries generally comes from rich supporters, like those in the Suttas.

Mostly such things are organised quietly (such as who are going to be major sponsors of a Kathina ceremony). I think this is an interesting move, which makes the process crystal clear.

:anjali:
Mike
santa100
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by santa100 »

tiltbilling wrote:
What are you really objecting to here?
Not quite "objecting" but there're other better ways. By the way, to those who would like to contact the venerable and share their opinions, below is the web site. It says the venerable doesn't have email but there're phone numbers and address location..

http://www.ajahnbrahm.org/index.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Cittasanto »

tiltbillings wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Naughty Ajahn Brahm. Literalist Cittasanto.
Literalistic? do I say they shouldn't have the multi-million dollar complex they are planning? no, I am saying they shouldn't make the life and status they have a commodity for sale to the highest bidder.
That is your interpretation and opinion, but opinions -- and that is what is being expressed here -- obviously vary.
Am I saying it is anything other than my interpretation or opinion?

Mikenz had previously asked about where this is coming from, the logic... so I have showed where mine is based.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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tiltbillings
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by tiltbillings »

mikenz66 wrote: Mostly such things are organised quietly (such as who are going to be major sponsors of a Kathina ceremony). I think this is an interesting move, which makes the process crystal clear.
I think the problem, for some here, is that Ven B is having some fun with all this, and of course fun is unseemly for a bhikkhu. Mustn't we be dour to be a proper follower of the Dhamma?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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tiltbillings
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by tiltbillings »

santa100 wrote:
tiltbilling wrote:
What are you really objecting to here?
Not quite "objecting" but there're other better ways.
Which is, of course, your opinion and opinions obviously vary.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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tiltbillings
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by tiltbillings »

Cittasanto wrote:
Mikenz had previously asked about where this is coming from, the logic... so I have showed where mine is based.
And he has also just offered a nice counter to that. So, where does that leave us in this opinion ping-pong game?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
santa100
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by santa100 »

tiltbilling wrote:
Which is, of course, your opinion and opinions obviously vary.
Of course it's all opinion here. At least I showed the reasons for concern here. And we should share our opinions not only among ourselves but to the venerable too, so that he'd know what the lay community's thinking..
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Mr Man
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Mr Man »

tiltbillings wrote:
I would say to those here whose noses are a bit bent by what Ven B is doing, get together and drop him a line expressing your opinions about his choice of behavior. Obviously the issue is not going to be solved by all the back and forth going on here.
Do you think that the Ven. Ajahn doesn't know that he would be bending noses?
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Cittasanto »

mikenz66 wrote: It should be clear to anyone with more than a casual involvement that the millions of dollars it takes to build and support even modest monasteries generally comes from rich supporters, like those in the Suttas.

Mostly such things are organised quietly (such as who are going to be major sponsors of a Kathina ceremony). I think this is an interesting move, which makes the process crystal clear.

:anjali:
Mike
do you see a difference between a sporting event sponsorship and [bidding at] a bachelor auction?

edit in square bracket
Last edited by Cittasanto on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Cittasanto
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Cittasanto »

tiltbillings wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:
Mikenz had previously asked about where this is coming from, the logic... so I have showed where mine is based.
And he has also just offered a nice counter to that. So, where does that leave us in this opinion ping-pong game?
not that it is or isn't a nice counter, but that doesn't change anything about it not being claimed to be more than it is.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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