Ajahn Brahm for sale?

[Cittasanto]

Naughty Ajahn Brahm. Literalist Cittasanto.

Literalistic? do I say they shouldn't have the multi-million dollar complex they are planning? no, I am saying they shouldn't make the life and status they have a commodity for sale to the highest bidder.

[santa100]

tiltbillings wrote:
Well, then they have something of interest inside themselves to consider.

It doesn't have to start that way if the lay staff does it instead of the venerable..

[Cittasanto]

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The Economy of Gifts

[tiltbillings]

Naughty Ajahn Brahm. Literalist Cittasanto.

Literalistic? do I say they shouldn't have the multi-million dollar complex they are planning? no, I am saying they shouldn't make the life and status they have a commodity for sale to the highest bidder.

That is your interpretation and opinion, but opinions -- and that is what is being expressed here -- obviously vary.

I would say to those here whose noses are a bit bent by what Ven B is doing, get together and drop him a line expressing your opinions about his choice of behavior. Obviously the issue is not going to be solved by all the back and forth going on here.

[tiltbillings]

tiltbillings wrote:
Well, then they have something of interest inside themselves to consider.

It doesn't have to start that way if the lay staff does it instead of the venerable..

What are you really objecting to here?

[mikenz66]

I thought this was quite common practice anyway, in that monks would spend time with the largest benefactors.

Indeed, there are passages like this all over the suttas:

"May Master Gotama, together with the community of monks, acquiesce to my offer of tomorrow's meal."
The Blessed One acquiesced with silence.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

King Kiki Kàsiràjà took a low seat and siting said thus to the Blessed One [Former Buddha Kassapa]: Venerable sir, may the Blessed One accept to spend the rains in Benares, I will attend on the Blessed One and the community in this manner. The Blessed One Kassapa perfect and rightfully enlightened said I have already accepted to spend the rains. King Kiki Kàsiràjà entreated the Blessed One up to the third time and the Blessed One Kassapa said I have already accepted to spend the rains. Then king Kiki Kàsiràjà was displeased and unpleasant, thinking, the Blessed One Kassapa perfect rightfully enlightened does not accept my invitation. He asked the Blessed One Kassapa. Venerable sir, is there some other enticing supporter? Great king, in the chief village, Vebhalinga there is a potter named Ghatikara, he is my chief supporter.
http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pit ... ra-e1.html

It should be clear to anyone with more than a casual involvement that the millions of dollars it takes to build and support even modest monasteries generally comes from rich supporters, like those in the Suttas.

Mostly such things are organised quietly (such as who are going to be major sponsors of a Kathina ceremony). I think this is an interesting move, which makes the process crystal clear.


Mike

[santa100]

tiltbilling wrote:
What are you really objecting to here?

Not quite "objecting" but there're other better ways. By the way, to those who would like to contact the venerable and share their opinions, below is the web site. It says the venerable doesn't have email but there're phone numbers and address location..

http://www.ajahnbrahm.org/index.php

[Cittasanto]

Naughty Ajahn Brahm. Literalist Cittasanto.

Literalistic? do I say they shouldn't have the multi-million dollar complex they are planning? no, I am saying they shouldn't make the life and status they have a commodity for sale to the highest bidder.

That is your interpretation and opinion, but opinions -- and that is what is being expressed here -- obviously vary.

Am I saying it is anything other than my interpretation or opinion?

Mikenz had previously asked about where this is coming from, the logic... so I have showed where mine is based.

[tiltbillings]

Mostly such things are organised quietly (such as who are going to be major sponsors of a Kathina ceremony). I think this is an interesting move, which makes the process crystal clear.

I think the problem, for some here, is that Ven B is having some fun with all this, and of course fun is unseemly for a bhikkhu. Mustn't we be dour to be a proper follower of the Dhamma?

[tiltbillings]

tiltbilling wrote:
What are you really objecting to here?

Not quite "objecting" but there're other better ways.

Which is, of course, your opinion and opinions obviously vary.

[tiltbillings]

Mikenz had previously asked about where this is coming from, the logic... so I have showed where mine is based.

And he has also just offered a nice counter to that. So, where does that leave us in this opinion ping-pong game?

[santa100]

tiltbilling wrote:
Which is, of course, your opinion and opinions obviously vary.

Of course it's all opinion here. At least I showed the reasons for concern here. And we should share our opinions not only among ourselves but to the venerable too, so that he'd know what the lay community's thinking..

[Mr Man]

I would say to those here whose noses are a bit bent by what Ven B is doing, get together and drop him a line expressing your opinions about his choice of behavior. Obviously the issue is not going to be solved by all the back and forth going on here.

Do you think that the Ven. Ajahn doesn't know that he would be bending noses?

[Cittasanto]

It should be clear to anyone with more than a casual involvement that the millions of dollars it takes to build and support even modest monasteries generally comes from rich supporters, like those in the Suttas.

Mostly such things are organised quietly (such as who are going to be major sponsors of a Kathina ceremony). I think this is an interesting move, which makes the process crystal clear.


Mike

do you see a difference between a sporting event sponsorship and [bidding at] a bachelor auction?

edit in square bracket

[Cittasanto]

Mikenz had previously asked about where this is coming from, the logic... so I have showed where mine is based.

And he has also just offered a nice counter to that. So, where does that leave us in this opinion ping-pong game?

not that it is or isn't a nice counter, but that doesn't change anything about it not being claimed to be more than it is.

[Mr Man]

Mostly such things are organised quietly (such as who are going to be major sponsors of a Kathina ceremony). I think this is an interesting move, which makes the process crystal clear.

If I were to put a positive spin on it I would say that it meant more as a wake up call and to make it clear that more support is needed and this is how far the Ven. Ajahn will go rather than a serious new development in fund raising techniques.

[Billymac29]

I dont see much difference between this and paying for a meditation retreat at a monastery... Many monasteries have dana bowls or collectors where the money goes to help support the monastery... The lay people in the community usually handle the money that deal with monetary needs of the monastery.. Monasteries offer dhamma talks, meditation instruction, and question and answer with teacher...

Don't see the difference and why this is such a big deal for people. Although the title "Ajahn Brahm for Sale" leaves much to be desired..

may all be well

[marc108]

Anyone who wants to see Ajahn Brahm can drop by his center and see him at one of any number of talks and groups he runs completely free of charge. The purpose of that auction is to raise money for the Nunnery. The issue here is that people are making broad judgements from narrow contextual understandings. It's a problem when we start pointing fingers about things we dont understand & making broad sweeping judgements about things like selling status without so much as even reaching out to the BSWA for clarification or to express our concerns in a reasonable way? we look at a website and explode in anger and judgement?

[tiltbillings]

I have said as much, if not more than, I should have and my only response to all of this kerfuffle is:

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

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The Economy of Gifts

Metta,
Retro.