Is There Scriptural Justification for The Wheel

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bhavanirodha
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Is There Scriptural Justification for The Wheel

Postby bhavanirodha » Tue May 14, 2013 4:52 am

Dear friends in Dhamma,

I have long wondered whether there was any scriptural support for using the wheel as a symbol for Dependent Origination. Ven. Thanissaro also points this out in his 'The Shape Of Suffering', and as far as I have read and recall, there is nothing in the Sutta Pitaka explicitly warranting such symbolism. However, someone once told me that there is a place in the Vinaya where the Buddha allows the Bhikkhus to use the wheel as a symbol for Dependent Origination specifically and the Dhamma generally. I have never been able to locate such a passage, but my Vinaya resources are somewhat shaky.

Can anyone shed light on this mystery quote if such a one exists? Or provide any further scriptural ground for this symbolism?

Metta and peace,
Bowing and thanks,
Andrew

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cooran
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Re: Is There Scriptural Justification for The Wheel

Postby cooran » Tue May 14, 2013 5:47 am

Hello Andrew,

This might be of interest:

Dhammacakkapavattana Sutta - Setting in Motion the Wheel of the Dhamma
Translated from the Pali by Bhikkhu Bodhi
http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebsut001.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhammacakk ... #Theravada

with metta
Chris
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binocular
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Re: Is There Scriptural Justification for The Wheel

Postby binocular » Tue May 14, 2013 5:59 am

From the notes to SN 56.11:

The discussion in the four paragraphs beginning with the phrase, "Vision arose...," takes two sets of variables — the four noble truths and the three levels of knowledge appropriate to each — and lists their twelve permutations. In ancient Indian philosophical and legal traditions, this sort of discussion is called a wheel. Thus, this passage is the Wheel of Dhamma from which the discourse takes its name.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

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Re: Is There Scriptural Justification for The Wheel

Postby Dmytro » Tue May 14, 2013 7:20 am



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Re: Is There Scriptural Justification for The Wheel

Postby Spiny Norman » Tue May 14, 2013 10:11 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Sam Vara
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Re: Is There Scriptural Justification for The Wheel

Postby Sam Vara » Tue May 14, 2013 10:15 am


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Re: Is There Scriptural Justification for The Wheel

Postby Spiny Norman » Tue May 14, 2013 10:24 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Re: Is There Scriptural Justification for The Wheel

Postby Zakattack » Tue May 14, 2013 10:39 am


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mikenz66
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Re: Is There Scriptural Justification for The Wheel

Postby mikenz66 » Tue May 14, 2013 7:34 pm


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Re: Is There Scriptural Justification for The Wheel

Postby mikenz66 » Tue May 14, 2013 8:58 pm


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daverupa
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Re: Is There Scriptural Justification for The Wheel

Postby daverupa » Tue May 14, 2013 9:04 pm

It looks to be contemporary with some Commentarial stratum or other, at any rate.

I don't recall the phrase "with death as condition, ignorance", so it doesn't look like DO was originally intended to go 'round that bend.

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mikenz66
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Re: Is There Scriptural Justification for The Wheel

Postby mikenz66 » Tue May 14, 2013 9:08 pm


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Re: Is There Scriptural Justification for The Wheel

Postby mikenz66 » Tue May 14, 2013 9:32 pm


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Re: Is There Scriptural Justification for The Wheel

Postby mikenz66 » Tue May 14, 2013 9:38 pm


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Re: Is There Scriptural Justification for The Wheel

Postby retrofuturist » Tue May 14, 2013 10:40 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Is There Scriptural Justification for The Wheel

Postby binocular » Wed May 15, 2013 7:42 am

I see a striking similarity between the icon of the wheel and .

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Spiny Norman
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Re: Is There Scriptural Justification for The Wheel

Postby Spiny Norman » Wed May 15, 2013 9:25 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Spiny Norman
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Re: Is There Scriptural Justification for The Wheel

Postby Spiny Norman » Wed May 15, 2013 9:28 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

binocular
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Re: Is There Scriptural Justification for The Wheel

Postby binocular » Wed May 15, 2013 10:06 am

Well, it is called "the round of rebirth."

bhavanirodha
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Re: Is There Scriptural Justification for The Wheel

Postby bhavanirodha » Mon May 27, 2013 4:43 am

Dear all,

thank you all for your thorough replies. Please forgive this lateness of my follow up, as I don't have many opportunities to login.

Metta,
Andrew


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