emptiness

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emptiness

Postby Stephen K » Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:59 pm

Is emptiness the same as anatta, or is there more to it?
With metta,
Upāsaka Sumana
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Re: emptiness

Postby clw_uk » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:31 pm

Good question, to me they are both sides of the same coin



Whatever is not-self is Void and whatever is Void is not-self



Then Ven. Ananda went to the Blessed One and on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One, "It is said that the world is empty, the world is empty, lord. In what respect is it said that the world is empty?"

"Insofar as it is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self: Thus it is said, Ananda, that the world is empty. And what is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self? The eye is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self. Forms... Eye-consciousness... Eye-contact is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self.

"The ear is empty...

"The nose is empty...

"The tongue is empty...

"The body is empty...

"The intellect is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self. Ideas... Intellect-consciousness... Intellect-contact is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self. Thus it is said that the world is empty."


[Mogharaja:]
Twice now, O Sakyan,
I've asked you,
but you, One with vision,
haven't answered me.
When asked the third time
the celestial seer answers:
so I have heard.
This world, the next world,
the Brahma world with its devas:
I don't know how they're viewed
by the glorious Gotama.
So to the one who has seen
to the far extreme,
I've come with a question:
How does one view the world
so as not to be seen
by Death's king?

[The Buddha:]
View the world, Mogharaja,
as empty —
always mindful
to have removed any view
about self.

This way one is above & beyond death.
This is how one views the world
so as not to be seen
by Death's king.
“The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences. When love and hate are both absent, everything becomes clear and undisguised." Verses on the Faith Mind, Sengcan
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Re: emptiness

Postby Individual » Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:18 pm

Stefan wrote:Is emptiness the same as anatta, or is there more to it?

Emptiness can always be explained in terms of anatta, but it depends on what you mean by anatta. If by anatta you mean, "the lack of personhood," "lack of a soul", etc., no, they're sort of different because anatta is narrower in scope. If by anatta, you mean "the lack of separate or independent identity (due to dependent origination)", then yes, they are the same: regarding all things internally and externally as anatta.
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra
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Re: emptiness

Postby mindfullmom » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:38 pm

Do you think there are levels of the realization of emptiness? Is that what the descriptions of stream enterer and non returner, etc. try to explain?

For example, I'll use myself, when I first read about emptiness it made sense to me. Then, through the practice of insight, eventually it became almost as if
I could clearly "see" that the "I" was not really there at all, in any permenent way. From there I began to see all things (people, events, feelings) as empty in every moment of experience.
Once that became clear, I no longer experienced confusion about my own feelings or anyone elses, it all just seemed like a bunch of conditioned entanglments with no true underlying substance.
I seem to understand where it all springs from and find myself feeling compassion for even the most violent criminals. Is this making any sense?

Sorry if I sound uniformed. I have been studying and practicing on my own for almost three years and I am glad to have found this discussion board to help guide me along!
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