With what do you experience this?

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Re: With what do you experience this?

Postby mirco » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:00 pm

SarathW wrote:The dimension of non-objectification, although it may not be described, may be realized through direct experience.
"Monks, that dimension should be experienced where the eye [vision] stops and the perception [label] of form fades. That dimension should be experienced where the ear stops and the perception of sound fades... where the nose stops and the perception of aroma fades... where the tongue stops and the perception of flavor fades... where the body stops and the perception of tactile sensation fades... where the intellect stops and the perception of idea/phenomenon fades: That dimension should be experienced."— SN 35.116
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... e/2-1.html
=======================================
If there are no six senses how do you experience it?


Hi,

that qoute comes from the article, but I cannot find the Sutta anywhere.

http://www.palicanon.org/index.php/sutt ... ense-bases

Can someone please help me finding it online? (Pāḷi would be ok, but english is preferred.)
Or at least give me the (pāḷi) name of that Sutta?


Kind Regards,
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Re: With what do you experience this?

Postby daverupa » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:13 pm

mirco wrote:that qoute comes from the article, but I cannot find the Sutta anywhere.

http://www.palicanon.org/index.php/sutt ... ense-bases


The citation is for SN 35.116, which can be found here by searching for the string "116 (3) Going to the End of the World".

But there is no talk of "that dimension... where...", only Ananda giving details about this utterance by the Buddha:

Bhikkhus, I say that the end of the world cannot be known, seen, or reached by travelling. Yet, bhikkhus, I also say that without reaching the end of the world there is no making an end to suffering.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: With what do you experience this?

Postby chownah » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:29 pm

SarathW wrote:Hi all
Thanks for your valuable input.
I have a question re following passage. I thought it is better to include here rather than raising a new question.

===========================
Other passages mention a consciousness in this freedom — "without feature or surface, without end, luminous all around" — lying outside of time and space, experienced when the six sense spheres stop functioning (MN 49). In this it differs from the consciousness-khandha, which depends on the six sense spheres and can be described in such terms as near or far, past, present, or future. Consciousness without feature is thus the awareness of Awakening. And the freedom of this awareness carries over even when the awakened person returns to ordinary consciousness. As the Buddha said of himself:
"Freed, dissociated, & released from form, the Tathagata dwells with unrestricted awareness. Freed, dissociated, & released from feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness... birth... aging... death... suffering & stress... defilement, the Tathagata dwells with unrestricted awareness."
— AN 10.81

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... andha.html

=====================
My questions:
a)How consciousness be luminous all around if it hasn’t got features?
b)How consciousness can be experienced if there is no six sense spheres?
C) Is Ven. Thanissaaro talking here about a living Arahant?

I happened upon a sutta which seems to address the question of how consciousness can be experienced if there is no six sense spheres.........
SN22.55
"If a monk abandons passion for the property of consciousness, then owing to the abandonment of passion, the support is cut off, and there is no base for consciousness. Consciousness, thus unestablished, not proliferating, not performing any function, is released. Owing to its release, it stands still. Owing to its stillness, it is contented. Owing to its contentment, it is not agitated. Not agitated, he (the monk) is totally unbound right within. He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'

This excerpt comes from very nearly the end of the sutta and it might be good to read some or all of what precedes.

Also, isn't there some other thread where unestablished consciousness was being discussed? If someone remembers where it is can they post that info here?
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Re: With what do you experience this?

Postby mirco » Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:45 am

All,

nice discussion. Now, why not experiencing it, instead of only talking 'bout it all the time...

(I know, it's easier said then done.)

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Re: With what do you experience this?

Postby SarathW » Tue May 20, 2014 11:22 pm

The cessation here mean the cessation of the spheres of contact.

P 501 - Sermon 23

http://www.seeingthroughthenet.net/file ... lled_V.pdf
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