What Is Nibbana

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Mindstar
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Re: What Is Nibbana

Post by Mindstar »

tiltbillings wrote:
Mindstar wrote:As nobody has ever come back from Nibbana i guess we will never know exactly.
Nibbana is not a place to go to.
I do agree

Higher than lordship over all earth,
Higher than sojourning in heavens supreme,
Higher than empire over all the worlds,
Is Fruit of Entrance to the Dhamma Stream.
—Dhammapada
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tiltbillings
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Re: What Is Nibbana

Post by tiltbillings »

Mindstar wrote:As nobody has ever come back from Nibbana i guess we will never know exactly.

I`ve got my personal theory however that is related to science.
Especially on the idea that the energy levels in the universe never change.
Energy simply transforms into matter and matter back into energy, its the same thing in the end.
As a consequence you cannot simply disappear with no traces left.
Basically you have to transform back to the energy pool you have been initially created from into the state of the "uncreated".
An energy pool that is formless, informationless and "deathless".
If this were the case, then there is no need to do anything.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Modus.Ponens
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Re: What Is Nibbana

Post by Modus.Ponens »

Hey :)

I don't know why people jump to the conclusion that it is not nibbana. Not trying to start an argument; just saying that it's possible that it is a glimpse of nibbana.

Let me try to conciliate what venerable Pesala is saying with what other teachers teach. Ayya Khema taught that there were path moments and fruition moments. The path moments, she says, are like what venerable Pesala is describing: a cessation of perception and feeling. Acording to Bhante Gunaratana, a path moment occurs when you destroy a first fetter of the next level. It could be the fetter of belief in a self; or it could be doubt in the case of stream entry being your next level. It could also be sense desire in the case of once returning; and so on. Acording to Ayya Khema there is also a fruition moment: when you destroy all the fetters of the respective level of awakening. That fruition experience, she says, can be repeatedly experienced if the meditator wishes to. It would seem to me that what you are experiencing might be spontaneous fruition moments. It could be possible that you are a stream enterer and were reborn in this world already as a stream enterer.

Now, since you are also scientificaly inclined, I trust that you are mature enough not to be fooled by wishful thinking. Analyse what your experience is and, even if you reach an absolute certain conclusion, continue striving to the end of suffering.

A delicate problem here is that if it is true that you were a stream enterer when you were born, the criteria that the Buddha laid down for determining if a person is a stream enterer might not be a good way to judge that. If I recall correctly, the criteria are: no belief in a self; no attachment to rituals; and no doubt about the dhamma. This last criterion is difficult to evaluate in your hypothetical situation because if that's the case, then you didn't experience a before-doubt period and an after-doubt period.

Anyway I have no idea if it's a fruition moment or not. But, nevertheless, it's worth exploring that possibility. I mean, if there is a place on the internet where that kind of person would ask a question like that, it would be right here on dhamma wheel.

PS: I hope I'm not misrepresenting the teachings of the above teachers.
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
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Re: What Is Nibbana

Post by Spiny Norman »

tiltbillings wrote:Nibbana is not a place to go to.
So is it a state of mind?
Buddha save me from new-agers!
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Mindstar
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Re: What Is Nibbana

Post by Mindstar »

tiltbillings wrote:If this were the case, then there is no need to do anything.
That is true, for an Arahat who has let go of all craving that leads to continued reappearance in the world there is nothing to do at all. :anjali:

Higher than lordship over all earth,
Higher than sojourning in heavens supreme,
Higher than empire over all the worlds,
Is Fruit of Entrance to the Dhamma Stream.
—Dhammapada
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Kare
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Re: What Is Nibbana

Post by Kare »

Once Venerable Sariputta was staying among the folk of Magadha at Nalaka village. Then the wanderer Jambukhadaka, paid a visit to him and asked, "You, Buddhists, utter the word of nibbana frequently. What is nibbana?" Venerable Sariputta replied, "The destruction of lust, the destruction of hatred, the destruction of delusion is called nibbana." "Is there any practice to attain nibbana?" Jambukhadaka added. "Yes, indeed, it can be attained through the practice of the noble path; right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness and right concentration", Venerable Sariputta replied.(S. iv. 251)
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greenjuice
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Re: What Is Nibbana

Post by greenjuice »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:If you could hear, see, and smell, then you had not attained nibbāna, which is the cessation of feeling and perception.
Buddha does say that in the ninth jhana, that is- nirvana, there is no sanna, perception, but how Nirvana be "supreme happiness" if there is no feeling or perception in it? If one doesn't feel or percieve anything, how can one then experience happiness?
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Re: What Is Nibbana

Post by Zom »

Buddha does say that in the ninth jhana, that is- nirvana, there is no sanna, perception, but how Nirvana be "supreme happiness" if there is no feeling or perception in it? If one doesn't feel or percieve anything, how can one then experience happiness?
This is because "experiencing" happiness (or whatever) is suffering, actually. That is how when there is no experience, this is supreme happiness. 8-)

And this is not a joke.
Take a look: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
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Re: What Is Nibbana

Post by buddhismfordudes »

Nibbana cannot be imagined or described.
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Aloka
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Re: What Is Nibbana

Post by Aloka »

buddhismfordudes wrote:Nibbana cannot be imagined or described.

This is from "Nibbana" by Bhikkhu Bodhi:
The state of final deliverance is called "Nibbana" in Pali and "Nirvana" in Sanskrit. Nibbana literally means the extinguishing of a flame. The word "Nibbana" used by the Buddha means the extinguishing of the flame of craving, the extinguishing of the fires of greed, hatred and delusion.

http://www.beyondthenet.net/dhamma/nibbana.html
:anjali:
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greenjuice
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Re: What Is Nibbana

Post by greenjuice »

Zom wrote:This is because "experiencing" happiness (or whatever) is suffering, actually.
Actually, this is a contradiction. If one is experiencing happiness, one is by definition not suffering.
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Mkoll
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Re: What Is Nibbana

Post by Mkoll »

greenjuice wrote:
Zom wrote:This is because "experiencing" happiness (or whatever) is suffering, actually.
Actually, this is a contradiction. If one is experiencing happiness, one is by definition not suffering.
Right at that moment. But because its impermanent, suffering is just around the corner.

Take a step back and look at life objectively and you see that happiness is inextricably tied to suffering.

The Dhamma is the raft to go beyond suffering.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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greenjuice
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Re: What Is Nibbana

Post by greenjuice »

Right at that moment. But because its impermanent, suffering is just around the corner.
My question was about the happiness of nibbana.
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Mkoll
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Re: What Is Nibbana

Post by Mkoll »

greenjuice wrote:
Right at that moment. But because its impermanent, suffering is just around the corner.
My question was about the happiness of nibbana.
"Nibbana is to be experienced by the wise." There's no answer to your question, especially coming from non-arahants. And even if an arahant were to answer that question, the answer would be in words which you or I would interpret based on our delusional provclivities.

Which is why its best not to give attention to these questions.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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Jon. S
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Re: What Is Nibbana

Post by Jon. S »

Mkoll wrote:
greenjuice wrote:
Right at that moment. But because its impermanent, suffering is just around the corner.
My question was about the happiness of nibbana.
"Nibbana is to be experienced by the wise." There's no answer to your question, especially coming from non-arahants. And even if an arahant were to answer that question, the answer would be in words which you or I would interpret based on our delusional provclivities.

Which is why its best not to give attention to these questions.
I'm not sure where I read it (possibly something by Ajahn Geoff), but I read something that said that the word "happiness" is the closest word one can use to describe nibbana, but actually it is nothing like happiness. Because humans so often seek happiness, it seems to be the one thing humans desire, that is the word that is used but in fact nibbana transcends happiness. It does not imply an arahant would always be laughing and giggling in the same way a child who is at Disneyland or someone who has just gotten a promotion would, but rather, it is a happiness that goes far beyond conventional understanding of happiness.

And also, it is unconditioned - unlike our usual conditioned happiness we experience.
I was born naked.
My beloved parents
kindly gave me a name.
When I reached twenty
I thought "a name is a chain,
I want to abandon it".
Whoever I questioned
No one answers me.
When I hear the wind in the pines
I get an answer.
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