Generalized Anxiety, what kilesa is that?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
User avatar
Alex123
Posts: 2979
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:32 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6

Generalized Anxiety, what kilesa is that?

Postby Alex123 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:27 pm

Hello all,

1) I wonder, what kilesa is GA?
2) What akusala root feeds it? (most likely either moha or dosa)
3) What kind of perversion/vipallasa is it related to?

Thanks,

Alex
"dust to dust...."

User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 4542
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1001

Re: Generalized Anxiety, what kilesa is that?

Postby daverupa » Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:32 pm

There is no list of kilesas in the suttas; I'd lump it into one or another hindrance and get to work on it alongside other medical interventions - sometimes it can be genetic.

Maybe flurry-n-worry, as a category, covers anxiety in general.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

Babadhari
Posts: 459
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:23 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1001
Location: lalita ghat

Re: Generalized Anxiety, what kilesa is that?

Postby Babadhari » Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:39 pm

i'm no expert but perhaps uddhacca (restlessness) ?
Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......

Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28

User avatar
Alex123
Posts: 2979
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:32 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6

Re: Generalized Anxiety, what kilesa is that?

Postby Alex123 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:41 pm

kitztack wrote:i'm no expert but perhaps uddhacca (restlessness) ?


I thought about that too, but it seems that uddhacca is related to restlessness of a monk who thinks he may have broken Vinaya. In the context of meditation, that of course matters.


Six things are conducive to the abandonment of restlessness and remorse:

1. Knowledge of the Buddhist scriptures (Doctrine and Discipline);

2. Asking questions about them;

3. Familiarity with the Vinaya (the Code of Monastic Discipline, and for lay followers, with the principles of moral conduct);

4. Association with those mature in age and experience, who possess dignity, restraint and calm;

5. Noble friendship;

6. Suitable conversation.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... .html#rest
"dust to dust...."

User avatar
Bhikkhu Pesala
Posts: 2105
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: Generalized Anxiety, what kilesa is that?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:04 pm

I am wondering what you mean by “Generalized Anxiety.”

What about shame and dread? Isn't that also some kind of anxiety about what people might say if they learn about our misdeeds, or where we might be reborn after death due to those misdeeds.

Hiri and Ottappa are wholesome dhammas.
Last edited by Bhikkhu Pesala on Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
AIM WebsitePāli FontsIn This Very LifeBuddhist ChroniclesSoftware (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

User avatar
Alex123
Posts: 2979
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:32 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6

Re: Generalized Anxiety, what kilesa is that?

Postby Alex123 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:27 pm

Bhante,

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:I am wondering what you mean by “Generalized Anxiety.”


When I feel irrational anxiety about many mundane actions that do not deserve such anxiety. Lets say: asking directions from a stranger on the street, talking on the phone, driving in unknown places, etc. Obviously none of this is related to misdeeds or shameful acts.
"dust to dust...."

User avatar
kmath
Posts: 257
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:44 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1001

Re: Generalized Anxiety, what kilesa is that?

Postby kmath » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:03 pm

Generalized anxiety disorder is diagnosable. There's a description here: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/genera ... er/DS00502

User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 4199
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006
Location: California, USA

Re: Generalized Anxiety, what kilesa is that?

Postby Mkoll » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:06 am

Whenever there is questions about psychological disorders, I think that either a person actually has disorder (it's psychophysical) or they are deluding themself into believing they have a disorder (purely psychological). Regardless of the source, I've found this part of MN 2 to be most helpful. Here is my summary of it.

MN 2: Sabbāsava Sutta, All the Taints

What are the taints to be abandoned by seeing?

He understands what is fit for attention and what is unfit for attention. Since that is so, he does not attend to those things unfit for attention and he attends to those things fit for attention.

Things unfit for attention are those things that when given attention to, increase and give rise to the taints of sensual desire, being, and ignorance.
"There is the case where an uninstructed, run-of-the-mill person... doesn't discern what ideas are fit for attention, or what ideas are unfit for attention... This is how he attends inappropriately: 'Was I in the past? Was I not in the past? What was I in the past? How was I in the past? Having been what, what was I in the past? Shall I be in the future? Shall I not be in the future? What shall I be in the future? How shall I be in the future? Having been what, what shall I be in the future?' Or else he is inwardly perplexed about the immediate present: 'Am I? Am I not? What am I? How am I? Where has this being come from? Where is it bound?'"

Things fit for attention are those things that, when given attention to, don't give rise to taints and abandon arisen taints (sense desire, being, and ignorance).
He attends wisely to the 4 Noble Truths and attains to stream entry.


So I would say that the kilesa is unwise attention and believing that in reality a permanent self exists which can be ascribed attributes like a "disorder".
Peace,
James

befriend
Posts: 810
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006

Re: Generalized Anxiety, what kilesa is that?

Postby befriend » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:38 pm

i also have anxiety, and what i know is helping me is that i do not look for pleasure as my home. i turn my mind towards burning up craving not increasing craving. When a desire arises say for a chocolate bar i don't eat the chocolate bar, i let the desire burn itself up it hurts but its not me that's hurting its the defilment that's hurting. the more i do this the more relaxed i am in daily life. but i make sure i balance my craving so i drink atleast 2 cups of coffee a day, so my renunciation becomes workable. with metta, befriend

Babadhari
Posts: 459
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:23 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1001
Location: lalita ghat

Re: Generalized Anxiety, what kilesa is that?

Postby Babadhari » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:28 pm

befriend wrote:i also have anxiety, and what i know is helping me is that i do not look for pleasure as my home. i turn my mind towards burning up craving not increasing craving. When a desire arises say for a chocolate bar i don't eat the chocolate bar, i let the desire burn itself up it hurts but its not me that's hurting its the defilment that's hurting. the more i do this the more relaxed i am in daily life. but i make sure i balance my craving so i drink atleast 2 cups of coffee a day, so my renunciation becomes workable. with metta, befriend


hi befriend

does the coffee increase your anxiety?
Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......

Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28

befriend
Posts: 810
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006

Re: Generalized Anxiety, what kilesa is that?

Postby befriend » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:40 pm

I don't know I cant remember a time I went without coffee but someone who has anxiety said that when they work out hard in the morning, and don't drink coffee they are a lot less anxious.

Babadhari
Posts: 459
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:23 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1001
Location: lalita ghat

Re: Generalized Anxiety, what kilesa is that?

Postby Babadhari » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:57 pm

i dont drink coffee often anymore, but when i do i get very strong sensations from it. :rolleye: i view it as an intoxicant at this point.
Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......

Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28

User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 4199
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006
Location: California, USA

Re: Generalized Anxiety, what kilesa is that?

Postby Mkoll » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:50 am

kitztack wrote:i dont drink coffee often anymore, but when i do i get very strong sensations from it.

Likewise. My mind is racing and I can't stop urinating! Even black tea is too much. Green tea or chocolate is as far as I'd like to go.

befriend: try quitting or weaning yourself off of coffee and you'll probably get all sorts of unpleasant withdrawal systems. But if you go through it all the way I bet life would look a lot different and in a good way.

:anjali:
Peace,
James

befriend
Posts: 810
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006

Re: Generalized Anxiety, what kilesa is that?

Postby befriend » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:04 am

thank you for that impetus, I think you are right, the renunciation and the lack of stimulating caffeine would undoubtedly help me. :anjali:, befriend


Return to “General Theravāda discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: silver surfer and 9 guests