Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
SarathW
Posts: 21184
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by SarathW »

Well said Sati1.
We can safely say taking intoxicant is covered in Noble Eight Fold path.
It is covered under the heading mindfulness.

==========
But turning to the five precepts themselves, some words have to be said in defense of their negative formulation. Each moral principle included in the precepts contains two aspects — a negative aspect, which is a rule of abstinence, and a positive aspect, which is a virtue to be cultivated. These aspects are called, respectively, varitta (avoidance) and caritta (positive performance). Thus the first precept is formulated as abstaining from the destruction of life, which in itself is a varitta, a principle of abstinence. But corresponding to this, we also find in the descriptions of the practice of this precept a caritta, a positive quality to be developed, namely compassion. Thus in the suttas we read: "The disciple, abstaining from the taking of life, dwells without stick or sword, conscientious, full of sympathy, desirous of the welfare of all living beings." So corresponding to the negative side of abstaining from the destruction of life, there is the positive side of developing compassion and sympathy for all beings. Similarly, abstinence from stealing is paired with honesty and contentment, abstinence from sexual misconduct is paired with marital fidelity in the case of lay people and celibacy in the case of monks, abstinence from falsehood is paired with speaking the truth, and abstinence from intoxicants is paired with heedfulness.
==========
This fifth precept differs from the preceding four in that the others directly involve a man's relation to his fellow beings while this precept ostensibly deals solely with a person's relation to himself — to his own body and mind. Thus whereas the first four precepts clearly belong to the moral sphere, a question may arise whether this precept is really ethical in character or merely hygienic. The answer is that it is ethical, for the reason that what a person does to his own body and mind can have a decisive effect on his relations to his fellow men. Taking intoxicants can influence the ways in which a man interacts with others, leading to the violation of all five precepts. Under the influence of intoxicants a man who might otherwise be restrained can lose self-control, become heedless, and engage in killing, stealing, adultery, and lying. Abstinence from intoxicants is prescribed on the grounds that it is essential to the self-protection of the individual and for establishing the well-being of family and society. The precept thus prevents the misfortunes that result from the use of intoxicants: loss of wealth, quarrels and crimes, bodily disease, loss of reputation, shameless conduct, negligence, and madness.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el282.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Ananda26
Posts: 171
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:41 pm

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by Ananda26 »

SarathW wrote:I just listened to a Dhamma talk by Sri Lankan Buddhist monk (in Sinhalese Language). He said drinking alcohol and eating meat is not an unwholesome activity. He said that he does not say drinking alcohol is good.
Throughout the surmon he never mentioned that alchol lead to headlessnes.

The question I have is.

a) Where does drinking alcohol is fitting in Noble Eightfold Path
b) Did Buddha proclaim the Five Precepts and which Sutta do you find it?

:thinking:
Drinking alcohol is a bad, unwholesome activity.

Here is a link to Numerical Discourse of the Buddha: section 5;discourse #177 which includes intoxicants on the list of 5 wrong types of livelihood for a lay person. Right livelihood is found as item number 5 of the Noble Eightfold Path.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Here is a link to Long Discourse #32 in which King Vessavana refers to Buddha teaching the 5 precepts. Venerable Sariputta refers to it in Long Discourse #33 which Buddha approved of, and Buddha refers to it in Long Discourse #17 in association with Mahasudasana's Wheel Gem.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .piya.html
Spiny Norman
Posts: 10154
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by Spiny Norman »

clw_uk wrote: That can depend on the person. When I have one glass of wine I get a taste for it and end up getting drunk, so I can't just have one and have to not drink at all if I want to practice.
I eventually decided that complete abstention was the simplest solution. ;)
Buddha save me from new-agers!
SarathW
Posts: 21184
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by SarathW »

Another interesting Sutta:

"Monks, these five are things that weaken the training. Which five? The taking of life, stealing, sexual misconduct, the telling of lies, and distilled & fermented beverages that are a cause for heedlessness. These five are things that weaken the training.

"To abandon these five things that weaken the training, one should develop the four frames of reference. Which four? There is the case where a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. He remains focused on feelings in & of themselves... mind in & of itself... mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. To abandon the five things that weaken the training, one should develop these four frames of reference."

:reading:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
User avatar
greenjuice
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:56 pm

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by greenjuice »

As culaavuso mentioned, the five precepts are mentioned in the Abhisanda Sutta. In the Vipaka Sutta Buddha mentions three bodily actions, the four verbal action and taking intoxicants as being unwholsome and means to accumulate bad kamma. Both suttas are in the Anguttara Nikaya, meaning- they are Buddha-vacana. According to Theravada tradition (quoting from Nanavara Thera), the fifth precept has four factors: mada-niyam — intoxicants; patu-kamyata-cittam — the desire to drink; tajjo vayamo — the effort is made; pitappa-vesanam — the intoxicants being drunk passing the throat.
Bakmoon
Posts: 637
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:14 pm

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by Bakmoon »

I've personally always understood there to be two reasons for the fifth precept. First, intoxicants obviously affect the mind which lead to wrong behavior and interfere with spiritual practice. But there is another aspect to it I think that isn't as obvious. Many people say 'well I'm not taking enough to lead to wrong behavior or destroy my practice' but the fact of the matter is that they are taking alcohol for the purpose of feeling its effects, and those effects are mind altering. That's the reason people drink, not usually because they really like the taste, but because they enjoy the effect, even if it is relatively small.

To me it seems that it is this intention to disrupt the mind is rooted in very strong delusion that clarity and understanding don't matter and pure pleasure divorced from clarity and understanding does matter. Because kamma is intention at its root, the effect is bad. That's just how I've personally understood it.
The non-doing of any evil,
The performance of what's skillful,
The cleansing of one's own mind:
This is the Buddhas' teaching.
User avatar
phil
Posts: 874
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:08 am
Location: Tokyo

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by phil »

Also don't forget that the Buddha said that when we follow the precepts we provide protection to immeasurable beings. Our abstinence may be support for someone else's, just as going along with drinking in a situation drives others deeper into their habit, with untold consequences for countless beings as that sort of conditioning ripples out in either a wholesome or unwholesome way.
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)
User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 1835
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 11:41 pm
Location: Redlands, US occupied Northern Mexico
Contact:

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by lyndon taylor »

Some excellent comments, stay sober!! It's the mature thing to do.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
SarathW
Posts: 21184
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by SarathW »

I am reading the book of Ajhan Amaro, "Small boat. Great mountain"
I agree with him except the highlighted phrases.


PS: It is a great book to read.

============

P154:

The Fifth Precept It’s interesting that when the Buddha describes the moral pre- cepts, he often doesn’t actually mention the fifth one. The Buddha did not always label the precept against using intoxicants as intrinsically moral. When I say this, some people perk up and get very interested! The point, though, is that when the mind isin a heedless state, it is much easier to fall headlong into the first four danger zones than it is when the mind is attentive, balanced, and undrugged. To continue the driving analogy: just consider the number of accidents caused by people under the influence of drink and other intoxicants. So it may be that we wouldn’t experience the inescapable negative karmic result that we would, say, when telling a deliberate lie, but the precept against using intoxicants is included in the five because it’s a linchpin for all the others—when it goes, the wheels start to wobble.
For myself, I like to encourage the understanding of the fifth precept—“I undertake the precept to refrain from consuming in- toxicating drink and drugs which lead to carelessness”—to be a refraining from consuming the substances at all, not just a refrain- ing from intoxication. It’s a favorite idea, isn’t it, to think, “Just to have a beer now and then, or a glass of wine with dinner, that’s not against the precepts, is it?” Quite, honestly, I’d say that it is. To have the standard of abstinence is a great kindness to your- self and a kindness to other people by the example that you set. I’m not asking people to be rigid or fanatical about it, but it can be extremely helpful for ourselves to make a clear commitment.
It is like saying, “Mindfulness is a precious and fragile commodi- ty, why endanger or weaken it?” So, personally, I try to encourage a strict observance of the precepts, including that of refraining from intoxicants. This is out of no reason other than my love for you and all other beings. You will find it is the most helpful sup- port to all dimensions of Buddhist practice to respect the pre- cepts in this way.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 22286
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by Ceisiwr »

SarathW wrote:I am reading the book of Ajhan Amaro, "Small boat. Great mountain"
I agree with him except the highlighted phrases.


PS: It is a great book to read.

============

P154:

The Fifth Precept It’s interesting that when the Buddha describes the moral pre- cepts, he often doesn’t actually mention the fifth one. The Buddha did not always label the precept against using intoxicants as intrinsically moral. When I say this, some people perk up and get very interested! The point, though, is that when the mind isin a heedless state, it is much easier to fall headlong into the first four danger zones than it is when the mind is attentive, balanced, and undrugged. To continue the driving analogy: just consider the number of accidents caused by people under the influence of drink and other intoxicants. So it may be that we wouldn’t experience the inescapable negative karmic result that we would, say, when telling a deliberate lie, but the precept against using intoxicants is included in the five because it’s a linchpin for all the others—when it goes, the wheels start to wobble.
For myself, I like to encourage the understanding of the fifth precept—“I undertake the precept to refrain from consuming in- toxicating drink and drugs which lead to carelessness”—to be a refraining from consuming the substances at all, not just a refrain- ing from intoxication. It’s a favorite idea, isn’t it, to think, “Just to have a beer now and then, or a glass of wine with dinner, that’s not against the precepts, is it?” Quite, honestly, I’d say that it is. To have the standard of abstinence is a great kindness to your- self and a kindness to other people by the example that you set. I’m not asking people to be rigid or fanatical about it, but it can be extremely helpful for ourselves to make a clear commitment.
It is like saying, “Mindfulness is a precious and fragile commodi- ty, why endanger or weaken it?” So, personally, I try to encourage a strict observance of the precepts, including that of refraining from intoxicants. This is out of no reason other than my love for you and all other beings. You will find it is the most helpful sup- port to all dimensions of Buddhist practice to respect the pre- cepts in this way.

Makes sense to me :goodpost:
“The teacher willed that this world appear to me
as impermanent, unstable, insubstantial.
Mind, let me leap into the victor’s teaching,
carry me over the great flood, so hard to pass.”
Spiny Norman
Posts: 10154
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by Spiny Norman »

phil wrote: Our abstinence may be support for someone else's, just as going along with drinking in a situation drives others deeper into their habit..
Good point. I've been on both sides of that equation at different times.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
SarathW
Posts: 21184
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by SarathW »

Another Sutta support:

"Well, the Blessed One teaches the Dhamma to establish abstention from killing, from stealing, from sexual misconduct, from false speech, and from liquor that causes intoxication and negligence. To them such teaching is unpleasant and unpalatable."


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .piya.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
SarathW
Posts: 21184
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by SarathW »

What is the meaning of the highlighted statement.
======

There is the case where someone is a cloth-less[1] ascetic, rejecting conventions, licking his hands, not coming when asked, not staying when asked. He doesn't consent to food brought to him or food dedicated to him or to an invitation to a meal. He accepts nothing from the mouth of a pot or from the mouth of a bowl. He accepts nothing from across a stick, across a pestle, from two eating together, from a pregnant woman, from a nursing woman, from a woman lying with a man, from a food collection, from where a dog is waiting or flies are buzzing. He takes no fish or meat. He drinks no liquor, wine, or fermented drink. He limits himself to one house & one morsel a day, or two houses & two morsels... seven houses & seven morsels. He lives on one saucerful a day, two... seven saucerfuls a day. He takes food once a day, once every two days... once every seven days, and so on up to a fortnight, devoted to regulating his intake of food. He is an eater of greens, millet, wild rice, hide-parings, moss, rice bran, rice-scum, sesame flour, grass, or cow dung. He lives on forest roots & berries. He feeds on fallen fruits. He wears hemp, canvas, shrouds, refuse rags, tree bark, antelope hide, strips of antelope hide, kusa-grass garments, bark garments, wood-shaving garments, head-hair garments, animal wool, owl's wings. He is a hair-&-beard puller, one devoted to the practice of pulling out his hair & beard. He is a stander, one who rejects seats. He is a hands-around-the-knees sitter, one devoted to the exertion of sitting with his hands around his knees. He is a spike-mattresser, one who makes his bed on a bed of spikes. He is a third-time-in-the-evening bather, one who stays devoted to the practice of bathing in water. Thus in a variety of ways he stays devoted to the practice of tormenting & afflicting the body. With the break-up of the body, after death, he goes to a bad bourn, destitution, the realm of the hungry shades, hell

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
User avatar
Bhikkhu Pesala
Posts: 4644
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

SarathW wrote:What is the meaning of the highlighted statement.
The point is, I think, that abstaining from fish, meat, and alcohol do not make one's mind pure if one's view is still wrong. The point is made abundantly clear in the Āmagandha Sutta.
Abstaining from fish and meat, nakedness, shaving of the head, matted hair, smearing with ashes, wearing rough deerskins, attending the sacrificial fire; none of the various penances in the world performed for unhealthy ends, neither incantations, oblations, sacrifices nor seasonal observances, purify a person who has not overcome his doubts.
There are some who abstain from fish and meat (or alcohol) for their own benefit, and there are others who do so while looking down on, and finding fault with those who do not abstain from those things. The naked ascetics referred to in your quote were full of spiritual pride, and they condemned the Buddha's followers for eating meat and fish, (among other things).

It is spiritual pride and wrong views that send people to a bad destination after death, not eating meat or fish.
BlogPāli FontsIn This Very LifeBuddhist ChroniclesSoftware (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)
A fool from HK
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:07 am

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by A fool from HK »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
SarathW wrote:What is the meaning of the highlighted statement.

It is spiritual pride and wrong views that send people to a bad destination after death, not eating meat or fish.
Dear Bhante,

What should we do to overcome spiritual pride and other kinds of pride?
I am very humble person, always lack of confidence. So whenever I have some achievement I will feel pride.

:bow: :bow: :bow:
Post Reply