Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby SarathW » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:13 am

Thanks Santa.

This is very interesting article which relate to my OP.
The monk I mentioned in the OP was talking about Buddha Sasana (this was the theme of his sermon) and said that consuming alcohol was not dealt by Buddha.

See what Bhikkhu Bodhi said about this:

To do so (not to consume alcohol) is also part of our personal responsibility for preserving the Buddha's Sasana. (last paragraph)
:namaste:
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby santa100 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:24 am

No problem SarathW. The next time any monk's talk seems questionable, simply remember what Ven. Pesala had said earlier on this thread:
The early Saṅgha were all Noble Ones who knew without being told that sexual intercourse, using money, drinking intoxicants, wrong-livelihood, etc., were unsuitable for one gone forth as a recluse (see the Upakkilesa Sutta, Book of Fours). It was only later, when men with inferior perfections, or with ulterior motives, joined the Saṅgha that rules needed to be laid down and only after transgressions had been made.

..and we ARE ~ 2,500 years later, so..
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby vishuroshan » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:31 am

Dear sarath,

CUNDA KAMMARAPUTTA SUTTA

Unskillful Bodily Action
"And how is one made impure in three ways by bodily action? There is the case where a certain person takes life, is a hunter, bloody-handed, devoted to killing & slaying, showing no mercy to living beings. He takes what is not given. He takes, in the manner of a thief, things in a village or a wilderness that belong to others and have not been given by them. He engages in sensual misconduct. He gets sexually involved with those who are protected by their mothers, their fathers, their brothers, their sisters, their relatives, or their Dhamma; those with husbands, those who entail punishments, or even those crowned with flowers by another man. This is how one is made impure in three ways by bodily action.
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby vishuroshan » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:01 am

i need to mention somthing here. Sarath has seen only this part of the DHAMMA. you have not taken the message after listening to the whole dhamma discussion. VEN.VAJIRA BUDDHI didnt want to talke about Alcohol only and encourage people for it. by talking about that topic, he adviced us not add /remove any percept if buddha has not mentioned it in the original deshana(lecture). just like eating meats. we have added it n its not in buddha's deshana. VEN.VAJIRA BUDDHI's dehsana is about developing SILA/SAMADHI/PRAGNA.

with metta
viran
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby zamotcr » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:45 pm

The best for us, the disciples of the Buddha is to avoid alcohol and drugs that could make us do bad things and therefore create bad kamma to us.
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby Sati1 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:46 pm

A short personal story on the topic: In the social circles that I hang out in, a glass of wine or beer (or more) on a night out is pretty much the norm, and I've lived by that lifestyle ever since I reached the drinking age 14 years ago. I have considered giving up drinking for a few months now and decided to go slowly at this challenge this year, by first taking a 3-month complete alcohol fast, just to test what it's like not to drink at all. What I have recognized so far is that only by not drinking any alcohol whatsoever I can trust my mind completely. And if I want to be serious about understanding the workings of my mind and eventually uproot even the most subtle defilements, hindrances and cravings, I must develop a lifestyle that enables me to maintain a lucid and perfectly aware mind at all times. In addition, if I'm serious about my daily morning meditation sessions, I must create conditions in which the mind is operating at its highest potential for maximal clarity and power of concentration in every session. So if I'm completely honest with myself and with my commitment to this Path, I have to confess that the reasons for giving up drinking clearly outweigh those of not doing it (not even mentioning the arguments about kamma and what Buddha himself said, as discussed on earlier posts).

Nevertheless, I must confess that I am hesitant to give up drinking forever, since the social challenges appear daunting (eg at a friend's wedding or bachelor party). On the other hand, something tells me that dealing with those challenges will present a number of useful insights in its own right (eg about the ego, about attachment to the opinions of others, about the nature of my friendships, etc).
Sati1
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----
"I do not perceive even one other thing, o monks, that when developed and cultivated entails such great happiness as the mind" (AN 1.10, transl. Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi)
"So this spiritual life, monks, does not have gain, honor, and renown for its benefit, or the attainment of moral discipline for its benefit, or the attainment of concentration for its benefit, or knowledge and vision for its benefit. But it is this unshakable liberation of mind that is the goal of this spiritual life, its heartwood, and its end," (MN 29, transl. Ven Bhikkhu Bodhi)
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby vishuroshan » Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:30 am

i kindly request you to not to add percepts which buddha has not included in suttas. dear sarath pls note that the FIVE PERCEPTS came from BRAHMANA PEOPLE its not a buddha deshana. dot talk about 5 percepts when there are 7 percepts in total. occasianal drinker who takes a little amount of alcohol will not go to hell. then whats the difference?is it the alcohol percentage? im not saying that people shoul drink. we should not. but still its not a PAPA(evil deed).
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby cooran » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:14 am

Hello all,

A good short article by Ven. Dhammika with two quotes from the Buddha against the consumption of alcohol:

The Fifth Precept
http://sdhammika.blogspot.com.au/2009/0 ... ecept.html

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby SarathW » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:17 am

Dear Viran
I have provided you ample evidence to support my point.
This is not the first time I brought up this matter in this forum.
I first brought up this to clarify the attainment of Sotapana.

It is mandatory that a Sotapana observe the five precepts.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=14256
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby SarathW » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:27 am

Hi Cooran
Thanks for the link. This is the first time I learn the real meaning of this precept.
By the way, similar rock carving (the picture of the lovers) will find in Dambulla temple in Sri Lanka!
:)
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:38 am

A related story you may have heard before (perhaps a zen story):

A monk is given the order to do one of the following:

1. Kill a goat and eat it.
2. Sleep with a prostitute.
3. Drink a bottle of whiskey.

Knowing that all 3 break the precepts, the monk considered which would be the "lesser" of the evils. He concluded that drinking whiskey would be the least damaging since it is not killing anyone nor a serious violation of his monk's precepts. So he drank the whiskey, got drunk and while drunk, slept with the prostitute, killed the goat and ate it.
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby vishuroshan » Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:21 pm

Dear sarath, Remember, even Buddha has adviced not to beleive anything just because its mentioned in the books. or just because someone said. think. as i told you earlier, how come an occasional drinker go to hell? then those who drink other drinks will also go to hell? some medicines have ALCOHOL. in another way, what you are telling is People go to hell by EATING and DRINKING ? is it logic ? then why didnt buddha mention about Alcohol in other suttas which i have told you ? think about everything and come to a conclusion. there's a problem in suttas. what we are referiing to as TRIPITAKA is not 100% accurate. some people have added things and removed some important things. there are so many siuttas in tripitaka which are not BUDDHA's deshana. anyway DRINKING leads to HEEDLESSNESS, a buddhist must always be in MINDFULNESS. therefore he should avoid drinking alcohol. therefore we dont need to talk about this thing in one hand. but remember we should not add things in to BUDDHA dehsana.
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby Babadhari » Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:24 pm

cooran wrote:Hello all,

A good short article by Ven. Dhammika with two quotes from the Buddha against the consumption of alcohol:

The Fifth Precept
http://sdhammika.blogspot.com.au/2009/0 ... ecept.html

With metta,
Chris


The Buddha says: ‘There are these six dangers of drinking alcohol: loss of wealth, increase of quarrels, ill-health, a bad reputation, making a fool of oneself and impaired intelligence’. (D.III,182).

In the Dhammapada the Buddha warns, ‘The person who drinks alcohol digs up his own root in this world’ (Dhp.247)

http://sdhammika.blogspot.com.au/2009/0 ... ecept.html


David N. Snyder wrote: ............... So he drank the whiskey, got drunk and while drunk, slept with the prostitute, killed the goat and ate it.

just a typical saturday night :tongue:
Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......

Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby Weakfocus » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:29 pm

vishuroshan wrote:as i told you earlier, how come an occasional drinker go to hell? then those who drink other drinks will also go to hell? some medicines have ALCOHOL. in another way, what you are telling is People go to hell by EATING and DRINKING ?


The person who consumes medicine (which may have some form of alcohol) is not doing it with volition of getting intoxicated, or deriving sense pleasure from imbibing the medicine. In fact he or she very much wishes they would never have to take the medicine in the first place, and as soon as illness passes they stop taking medicine. So that's the difference.

AFAIK Buddha cautioned against intoxication and drugs. So that would include substances which cause a dulling of mind and loss of control over behavior. Also substances that can cause addiction. Alcohol qualifies on all counts.
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby Babadhari » Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:18 pm

i wonder how many people battling with addictions wish they had never started using alcohol or drugs in the first place.
if contact with the senses never occurs, the craving cannot arise.
the fifth precept saves lives!
Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......

Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby zamotcr » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:14 pm

vishuroshan wrote:Dear sarath, Remember, even Buddha has adviced not to beleive anything just because its mentioned in the books. or just because someone said. think. as i told you earlier, how come an occasional drinker go to hell? then those who drink other drinks will also go to hell? some medicines have ALCOHOL. in another way, what you are telling is People go to hell by EATING and DRINKING ? is it logic ? then why didnt buddha mention about Alcohol in other suttas which i have told you ? think about everything and come to a conclusion. there's a problem in suttas. what we are referiing to as TRIPITAKA is not 100% accurate. some people have added things and removed some important things. there are so many siuttas in tripitaka which are not BUDDHA's deshana. anyway DRINKING leads to HEEDLESSNESS, a buddhist must always be in MINDFULNESS. therefore he should avoid drinking alcohol. therefore we dont need to talk about this thing in one hand. but remember we should not add things in to BUDDHA dehsana.


What lead you to hell is not the alcohol, but the actions/misconduct you do while drunk. And it's very easy to loose control with booze, so it's better to avoid it.
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby SarathW » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:51 am

Hi Vroshan
Tripitaka is only a guide and a road map. It can’t be 100% accurate all the time.
You can’t travel in Sri Lanka or India today with a 2600 year old road map.

You have to interpret Tripitaka in it’s essence.

Why do you have to consume alcohol deliberately?
It is due to attachment and addiction.
This is a hindrance to attaining your final goal, Nirvana!

It is irresponsible for a Buddhist monk to say that consuming alcohol is not against Buddha’s teaching.
==============

Too much Saddhā and you will believe in
anything. Too much Paññā and you will become deceitful.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=19591

Metta
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby vishuroshan » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:28 am

Dear sarath,
i have already told you that drinking ALCOHOL is not good as a buddhis he/she should be mindful everytime. its not the problem. thos who were alcoholics think thet they will go to Hell just because they drank alcohol and they will be worried. its wrong. this is what i wanted to correct. its not in the budda deshana under the percepts. under NOBEL EIGHTFOLD PATH.
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby cooran » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:49 am

Hello all,

The whole dissertation is worth reading - especially Section 3 - the Fifth Precept and it's underlying significance
http://www.chezpaul.org.uk/buddhism/MSt ... tation.htm

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Postby SarathW » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:52 am

Hi Viran

I do not think I can argue this point with you any more. Please read Cooran's link carefully.

The life of the bird is in your hand now.

Please read this story.

"The Wise Man and the Baby Bird."

http://www.sayitwithastory.com/articles ... byBird.pdf
:meditate:
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