What is the 10 precepts an arahant has to follow?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism

What is the 10 precepts an arahant has to follow?

Postby villkorkarma » Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:31 am

What is the 10 percepts an arhant has to follow?
Last edited by villkorkarma on Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
dont hurt anyone in any sort of way
User avatar
villkorkarma
 
Posts: 473
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:43 pm

Re: What is the 10 percepts an arhant has to follow?

Postby suttametta » Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:47 am

villkorkarma wrote:What is the 10 percepts an arhant has to follow?


I think you mean the arahant is the result of the destruction of the ten fetters.
suttametta
 
Posts: 264
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 2:55 pm

Re: What is the 10 percepts an arhant has to follow?

Postby villkorkarma » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:01 am

Excuse me arahant I meaned, good attention
dont hurt anyone in any sort of way
User avatar
villkorkarma
 
Posts: 473
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:43 pm

Re: What is the 10 percepts an arahant has to follow?

Postby culaavuso » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:15 am

Arahants follow the ten factored path defined in MN 117
MN 117: Maha-cattarisaka Sutta wrote:In one of right view, right resolve comes into being. In one of right resolve, right speech comes into being. In one of right speech, right action... In one of right action, right livelihood... In one of right livelihood, right effort... In one of right effort, right mindfulness... In one of right mindfulness, right concentration... In one of right concentration, right knowledge... In one of right knowledge, right release comes into being. Thus the learner is endowed with eight factors, and the arahant with ten.


This is the standard "noble eightfold path" with the additional components of right knowledge and right release.

The ten precepts aren't directly related to being an arahant, but are the precepts undertaken by novices planning to become ordained.

The ten fetters suttametta mentioned are explained in AN 10.13 and are things abandoned by an arahant, not followed.
AN 10.13: Sanyojana Sutta wrote:There are these ten fetters. Which ten? Five lower fetters & five higher fetters. And which are the five lower fetters? Self-identity views, uncertainty, grasping at precepts & practices, sensual desire, & ill will. These are the five lower fetters. And which are the five higher fetters? Passion for form, passion for what is formless, conceit, restlessness, & ignorance. These are the five higher fetters. And these are the ten fetters.
culaavuso
 
Posts: 981
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:27 pm

Re: What is the 10 percepts an arahant has to follow?

Postby villkorkarma » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:19 am

Are the highest fetters those who you follow in the end? Or is It the lower fetters one get rid of in the end?
dont hurt anyone in any sort of way
User avatar
villkorkarma
 
Posts: 473
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:43 pm

Re: What is the 10 percepts an arahant has to follow?

Postby culaavuso » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:53 am

The fetters are more a matter of description than a matter of practice. All stages of practice work at cultivating the noble eightfold path and insight into the five aggregates.

SN 22.122
SN 22.122: Silavant Sutta wrote:A virtuous monk, Kotthita my friend, should attend in an appropriate way to the five clinging-aggregates as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a dissolution, an emptiness, not-self.
...
A monk who has attained stream-entry should attend in an appropriate way to these five clinging-aggregates as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a dissolution, an emptiness, not-self.
...
A monk who has attained once-returning should attend in an appropriate way to these five clinging-aggregates as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a dissolution, an emptiness, not-self.
...
A monk who has attained non-returning should attend in an appropriate way to these five clinging-aggregates as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a dissolution, an emptiness, not-self.
...
An arahant should attend in an appropriate way to these five clinging-aggregates as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a dissolution, an emptiness, not-self.


As a matter of description, the first three fetters are abandoned first at stream entry, then the next two at non-return, and the last five at arahantship:

MN 118
MN 118: Anapanasati Sutta wrote:"In this community of monks there are monks who are arahants, whose mental effluents are ended, who have reached fulfillment, done the task, laid down the burden, attained the true goal, laid to waste the fetter of becoming, and who are released through right gnosis: such are the monks in this community of monks.

"In this community of monks there are monks who, with the wasting away of the five lower fetters, are due to be reborn [in the Pure Abodes], there to be totally unbound, destined never again to return from that world: such are the monks in this community of monks.

"In this community of monks there are monks who, with the wasting away of [the first] three fetters, and with the attenuation of passion, aversion, & delusion, are once-returners, who — on returning only once more to this world — will make an ending to stress: such are the monks in this community of monks.

"In this community of monks there are monks who, with the wasting away of [the first] three fetters, are stream-winners, steadfast, never again destined for states of woe, headed for self-awakening: such are the monks in this community of monks.
culaavuso
 
Posts: 981
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:27 pm

Re: What is the 10 percepts an arahant has to follow?

Postby suttametta » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:59 am

villkorkarma wrote:Are the highest fetters those who you follow in the end? Or is It the lower fetters one get rid of in the end?


Five lower fetters given up at stage one, the highest fetter, given up at then end. Which one? Ignorance. No papanca. No I.
suttametta
 
Posts: 264
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 2:55 pm

Re: What is the 10 percepts an arahant has to follow?

Postby villkorkarma » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:08 pm

Buddhas teaching is good but how to swallow all he says about the 10 percepts I must ask how helpfull is his teachings? anyway I my self has to have own experience of It of Life of meditation to understand his teachings or?
dont hurt anyone in any sort of way
User avatar
villkorkarma
 
Posts: 473
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:43 pm

Re: What is the 10 percepts an arahant has to follow?

Postby purple planet » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:42 am

the buddha said that lay people should follow the 5 precepts to help them advance -
a monk has 217 rules to follow - but lots of rules are helpful for a monk but not for a lay person

I must ask how helpfull is his teachings?


his teachings are very helpful but its hard to see how helpful his teachings are in a short time we should be patient very patient
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance
User avatar
purple planet
 
Posts: 653
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:07 am
Location: Israel

Re: What is the 10 percepts an arahant has to follow?

Postby villkorkarma » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:12 am

which :namaste: are the 217
dont hurt anyone in any sort of way
User avatar
villkorkarma
 
Posts: 473
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:43 pm

Re: What is the 10 percepts an arahant has to follow?

Postby purple planet » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:27 pm

my mistake its 227 rules

and they are mostly rules about the monk robes ,alm taking ect - for example " not to ask a robe from someone who is not a relative " so are relevant only if you live in a monastery

no doubt we can make very good progress with only 5 precepts - and if you really want to 8 precepts
Last edited by purple planet on Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance
User avatar
purple planet
 
Posts: 653
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:07 am
Location: Israel

Re: What is the 10 percepts an arahant has to follow?

Postby villkorkarma » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:50 pm

aha.. the rule about rob i know about, what are the 8 percepts Purple planet?
dont hurt anyone in any sort of way
User avatar
villkorkarma
 
Posts: 473
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:43 pm

Re: What is the 10 percepts an arahant has to follow?

Postby purple planet » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:07 pm

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... asila.html


1. Panatipata veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from destroying living creatures.
2. Adinnadana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from taking that which is not given.
3. Abrahmacariya veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual activity.
4. Musavada veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from incorrect speech.
5. Suramerayamajja pamadatthana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness.
6. Vikalabhojana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from eating at the forbidden time (i.e., after noon).
7. Nacca-gita-vadita-visukkadassana mala-gandha-vilepana-dharana-mandana-vibhusanathana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from dancing, singing, music, going to see entertainments, wearing garlands, using perfumes, and beautifying the body with cosmetics.
8. Uccasayana-mahasayana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from lying on a high or luxurious sleeping place.




these training rules are observed by laypeople during periods of intensive meditation practice and during uposatha (lunar observance) days. The Eight Precepts are based on the Five Precepts, with the third precept extended to prohibit all sexual activity and an additional three precepts that are especially supportive to meditation practice.


but remember its not to be taken to the extreme :

for instance you can hear music - just dont intentionally look for it - lets say someone is listening to music next to you - than its ok for you to hear it

you dont have to sleep on a mattress - i think its more of dont sleep on a very luxuries bed - and most people dont sleep on
a luxurious sleeping bed - so no need to do anything special to follow this rule

the 5 precepts are the core rules to keep to make sure you advance and the 8 is if you want to do a bit extra - but they are hard to follow
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance
User avatar
purple planet
 
Posts: 653
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:07 am
Location: Israel

Re: What is the 10 percepts an arahant has to follow?

Postby villkorkarma » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:00 pm

okey thank you so much I will try to keep them all
dont hurt anyone in any sort of way
User avatar
villkorkarma
 
Posts: 473
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:43 pm

Re: What is the 10 percepts an arahant has to follow?

Postby villkorkarma » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:03 pm

why is some person laymens allowed to reach enlightenment in "heaven" (I suppose its not quite heaven) and some persons those who becomes arahants reach enlightenment on Earth?
dont hurt anyone in any sort of way
User avatar
villkorkarma
 
Posts: 473
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:43 pm

Re: What is the 10 percepts an arahant has to follow?

Postby purple planet » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:25 pm

some people hear about buddhism in the age of 90 and some hear of it at the age of 5 - some people decide to keep 5 precepts others dont - some people work hard and donate the money they get and volunteer in homless shelters and animal shelters - and some people just donate 1$ all there life and dont volunteer - some people are relaxed and only shout when they are very very upset - and some people shout all day every day - it depends on many things - the more good you do and the less bad you advance faster and the chances to be an arahnt this life is increase

everybody can reach enlightenment now - the human realm is the best realm to practice and advance - in upper realms ("heaven") its to good you will not think you need to practice and in lower realms ("hell") it would be so hard to practice

thats why we should be happy we are humans and use this opportunity to do are best - and of course not worry if we are advancing fast enough because this is a bad "worry " and we should let go of this worry

we should try to do our best now and not worry about the future " am i advancing fast enough" "will i be an arahant this life or the next " ect - we should just try to be good people -

you can be a layman and be an arahant in this life !
Last edited by purple planet on Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance
User avatar
purple planet
 
Posts: 653
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:07 am
Location: Israel

Re: What is the 10 percepts an arahant has to follow?

Postby culaavuso » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:31 pm

villkorkarma wrote:why is some person laymens allowed to reach enlightenment in "heaven" (I suppose its not quite heaven) and some persons those who becomes arahants reach enlightenment on Earth?


Non-returners still have some ignorance remaining which results in a continued passion for existence, the conceit "I am", and the associated restlessness.
Arahants have eliminated ignorance such that they have abandoned restlessness, continued passion for existence, and conceit.

AN 3.86
AN 3.86: Sekhin Sutta wrote:With the wasting away of the five lower fetters, he is one going upstream to the Peerless [the Akaniṭṭha heaven, the highest of the Pure Abodes.]


AN 10.13
AN 10.13: Sanyojana Sutta wrote:There are these ten fetters. Which ten? Five lower fetters & five higher fetters. And which are the five lower fetters? Self-identity views, uncertainty, grasping at precepts & practices, sensual desire, & ill will. These are the five lower fetters. And which are the five higher fetters? Passion for form, passion for what is formless, conceit, restlessness, & ignorance. These are the five higher fetters. And these are the ten fetters.


It's interesting to note that the same path leads to the elimination of all the fetters. The fetters are not a tool for practice so much as they are a description of progress, and obsession with progress and status is not a form of appropriate attention. However, it can be useful for practice to consider how the ten fetters seem to fall into three units of interrelated fetters. The standard description given in sources such as AN 3.86 linked above suggests that the first three fetters of self-identity views, uncertainty, and grasping and precepts and practices are abandoned as a unit. It's interesting to note that these three fetters are all different aspects of ignorance regarding views. Similarly, the next two fetters are abandoned as a unit. The relationship between sensual desire and ill will is similar to the relationship between greed and aversion in that they both arise from the same sort of delusion, and thus weakening or strengthening one tends to weaken or strengthen the other as well. The last five all revolve around the subtle ignorance and leads to conceit and passion for existence and the implicit restlessness in passion for an existence subject to constant change. Thus while the descriptions of the stages are of ten fetters, the fetters really come in three units.
culaavuso
 
Posts: 981
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:27 pm

Re: What is the 10 precepts an arahant has to follow?

Postby chownah » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:34 am

An arahant does not have to follow any precepts......none.....precepts are followed to achieve the goal...an arahant has already achieved the goal so doesn't need to follow them.....the arahant has crossed the stream and can just sink the raft and proceed without it.
chownah
chownah
 
Posts: 2657
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: What is the 10 percepts an arahant has to follow?

Postby purple planet » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:10 am

arahants act good naturally
Last edited by purple planet on Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance
User avatar
purple planet
 
Posts: 653
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:07 am
Location: Israel

Re: What is the 10 precepts an arahant has to follow?

Postby chownah » Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:29 pm

Purple planet,
I think that even though we do not agree completely in all aspects of this question I do agree that an arahant would naturally act in a way which would be consistent with the precepts similar to what you describe.
chownah
chownah
 
Posts: 2657
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Next

Return to General Theravāda discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests