Peace and not clinging to feelings...please explain

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Strive4Karuna
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Peace and not clinging to feelings...please explain

Postby Strive4Karuna » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:18 pm

What is the relationship between desiring peace....yet not clinging to feelings pleasant, neutral, unpleasant.


Thank you.

culaavuso
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Re: Peace and not clinging to feelings...please explain

Postby culaavuso » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:33 pm

Strive4Karuna wrote:What is the relationship between desiring peace....yet not clinging to feelings pleasant, neutral, unpleasant.


Desiring peace leads you to cling to the raft which can take you beyond clinging. The question is whether the desire ultimately leads to transcending and abandoning desire or whether that desire leads to a proliferation of desire.

AN 4.159
AN 4.159: Bhikkhuni Sutta wrote:'This body comes into being through craving. And yet it is by relying on craving that craving is to be abandoned.' Thus was it said. And in reference to what was it said? There is the case, sister, where a monk hears, 'The monk named such-and-such, they say, through the ending of the fermentations, has entered & remains in the fermentation-free awareness-release & discernment-release, having known & realized them for himself in the here & now.' The thought occurs to him, 'I hope that I, too, will — through the ending of the fermentations — enter & remain in the fermentation-free awareness-release & discernment-release, having known & realized them for myself in the here & now.' Then he eventually abandons craving, having relied on craving. 'This body comes into being through craving. And yet it is by relying on craving that craving is to be abandoned.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.


MN 22
MN 22: Alagaddupama Sutta wrote:The Blessed One said: "Suppose a man were traveling along a path. He would see a great expanse of water, with the near shore dubious & risky, the further shore secure & free from risk, but with neither a ferryboat nor a bridge going from this shore to the other. The thought would occur to him, 'Here is this great expanse of water, with the near shore dubious & risky, the further shore secure & free from risk, but with neither a ferryboat nor a bridge going from this shore to the other. What if I were to gather grass, twigs, branches, & leaves and, having bound them together to make a raft, were to cross over to safety on the other shore in dependence on the raft, making an effort with my hands & feet?' Then the man, having gathered grass, twigs, branches, & leaves, having bound them together to make a raft, would cross over to safety on the other shore in dependence on the raft, making an effort with his hands & feet. Having crossed over to the further shore, he might think, 'How useful this raft has been to me! For it was in dependence on this raft that, making an effort with my hands & feet, I have crossed over to safety on the further shore. Why don't I, having hoisted it on my head or carrying it on my back, go wherever I like?' What do you think, monks: Would the man, in doing that, be doing what should be done with the raft?"


The Demons of Defilement by Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo
Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo wrote:So craving has these two flavors, distilled out of kama-tanha, bhava-tanha, and vibhava-tanha: desire combined with lust, and desire free of lust. These, too, are demons of defilement. Each of them prevents the mind from inclining toward right concentration. This is why desire — chanda — is classed as a hindrance. Desire on the level of a hindrance covers inclination, a sense of liking, without any lust mixed in. But there's another type of chanda — called chanda-raga, or desire-and-passion — which is heavier than chanda as a hindrance. Chanda as a hindrance is light. Chanda-raga is an enemy of the precepts. Chanda as a hindrance is an enemy of concentration. This is why desire in either sense of the word is classed as a demon, a demon of defilement.

Babadhari
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Re: Peace and not clinging to feelings...please explain

Postby Babadhari » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:40 pm

thanks culaa vuso i had been under the impression that tanha was an unskilful form of craving for fabrications and hindrances and that chanda was a wholesome craving for Dhamma and Nibbana
Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......

Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28

Strive4Karuna
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:38 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006

Re: Peace and not clinging to feelings...please explain

Postby Strive4Karuna » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:41 pm

culaavuso wrote:
Strive4Karuna wrote:What is the relationship between desiring peace....yet not clinging to feelings pleasant, neutral, unpleasant.


Desiring peace leads you to cling to the raft which can take you beyond clinging. The question is whether the desire ultimately leads to transcending and abandoning desire or whether that desire leads to a proliferation of desire.

AN 4.159
AN 4.159: Bhikkhuni Sutta wrote:'This body comes into being through craving. And yet it is by relying on craving that craving is to be abandoned.' Thus was it said. And in reference to what was it said? There is the case, sister, where a monk hears, 'The monk named such-and-such, they say, through the ending of the fermentations, has entered & remains in the fermentation-free awareness-release & discernment-release, having known & realized them for himself in the here & now.' The thought occurs to him, 'I hope that I, too, will — through the ending of the fermentations — enter & remain in the fermentation-free awareness-release & discernment-release, having known & realized them for myself in the here & now.' Then he eventually abandons craving, having relied on craving. 'This body comes into being through craving. And yet it is by relying on craving that craving is to be abandoned.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.


MN 22
MN 22: Alagaddupama Sutta wrote:The Blessed One said: "Suppose a man were traveling along a path. He would see a great expanse of water, with the near shore dubious & risky, the further shore secure & free from risk, but with neither a ferryboat nor a bridge going from this shore to the other. The thought would occur to him, 'Here is this great expanse of water, with the near shore dubious & risky, the further shore secure & free from risk, but with neither a ferryboat nor a bridge going from this shore to the other. What if I were to gather grass, twigs, branches, & leaves and, having bound them together to make a raft, were to cross over to safety on the other shore in dependence on the raft, making an effort with my hands & feet?' Then the man, having gathered grass, twigs, branches, & leaves, having bound them together to make a raft, would cross over to safety on the other shore in dependence on the raft, making an effort with his hands & feet. Having crossed over to the further shore, he might think, 'How useful this raft has been to me! For it was in dependence on this raft that, making an effort with my hands & feet, I have crossed over to safety on the further shore. Why don't I, having hoisted it on my head or carrying it on my back, go wherever I like?' What do you think, monks: Would the man, in doing that, be doing what should be done with the raft?"


The Demons of Defilement by Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo
Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo wrote:So craving has these two flavors, distilled out of kama-tanha, bhava-tanha, and vibhava-tanha: desire combined with lust, and desire free of lust. These, too, are demons of defilement. Each of them prevents the mind from inclining toward right concentration. This is why desire — chanda — is classed as a hindrance. Desire on the level of a hindrance covers inclination, a sense of liking, without any lust mixed in. But there's another type of chanda — called chanda-raga, or desire-and-passion — which is heavier than chanda as a hindrance. Chanda as a hindrance is light. Chanda-raga is an enemy of the precepts. Chanda as a hindrance is an enemy of concentration. This is why desire in either sense of the word is classed as a demon, a demon of defilement.


Thank you


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