Dhammapada Verse 1: Why 'mano'?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism

Why is 'mano' used?

Mano is a general neutral word for the mind that is convenient for the passage.
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50%
Mano's role is to produce both impure & pure mental states.
1
50%
Mano, the knowing aware receptive mind, is the foundation of entering & developing the dhamma path.
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No votes
All of the above.
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No votes
Other (please post to share).
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No votes
 
Total votes : 2

Dhammapada Verse 1: Why 'mano'?

Postby EndlessStream » Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:53 am

Hello dhamma people

Mano is most often said to be the mind as a sense organ. Dhammapada Verse 1 is the renowned words:
Manopubbaṅgamā dhammā manoseṭṭhā manomayā

Mano is the forerunner of dhamma; mano is chief; mano created.

A common translation:
Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought.

AN 1.49-52 interestingly states:
Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements. The well-instructed disciple of the noble ones discerns that [luminous mind] as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones — there is development of the mind.

I am curious here. Can 'mano' here mean 'an aware mind' and 'dhamma' mean 'the path', 'skilful qualities' or 'path factors'? Therefore, mano, as a sense organ, is the forerunner, chief & maker of path development? Or is my mind acting monkey, here? :?:
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Re: Dhammapada Verse 1: Why 'mano'?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:43 pm

Take a look at the PTS Dictionary Entry for Citta.

Mano is also used in the context: physical (kāyakamma), verbal (vacikamma), and mental (manokamma).

In the context of Dhp v 1 I think dhammā just means phenomena.
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Re: Dhammapada Verse 1: Why 'mano'?

Postby santa100 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:01 pm

Ven. Sarada Maha Thero's translation and explanation: http://www.buddhanet.net/dhammapada/d_twin.htm
Terms definition and background story: http://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/ve ... ?verse=001
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Re: Dhammapada Verse 1: Why 'mano'?

Postby kirk5a » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:01 pm

EndlessStream wrote:I am curious here. Can 'mano' here mean 'an aware mind' and 'dhamma' mean 'the path', 'skilful qualities' or 'path factors'?

It can, as the verse says in the case of "Manasā ce pasannena" = with a clear, bright mind.
2. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with a pure mind a person speaks or acts happiness follows him like his never-departing shadow.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .budd.html
Pasanna
Pasanna1 (adj) [pp. of pasīdati] 1. clear, bright Sn 550 (˚netta); KhA 64 & 65 (˚tilatelavaṇṇa, where Vism 262 reads vippasanna˚); Vism 409 (id.). -- 2. happy, gladdened, reconciled, pleased J i.151, 307; Vism 129 (muddha˚). -- 3. pleased in one's conscience, reconciled, believing, trusting in (loc.), pious, good, virtuous A iii.35 (Satthari, dhamme sanghe); S i.34 (Buddhe); v.374; Vv 59; Sn 698; Dh 368 (Buddha -- sāsane); J ii.111; DhA i.60 (Satthari). Often combd with saddha (having faith) Vin ii.190; PvA 20, 42 (a˚), and in cpd. ˚citta devotion in one's heart Vin i.16; A vi.209; Sn 316, 403, 690; Pv ii.16; SnA 490; PvA 129; or ˚mānasa Sn 402; VvA 39; PvA 67; cp. pasannena manasā S i.206; Dh 2. See also abhippasanna & vippasanna.

http://dsalsrv02.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/p ... :2469.pali
(my underline)
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
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Re: Dhammapada Verse 1: Why 'mano'?

Postby EndlessStream » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:23 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Mano is also used in the context: physical (kāyakamma), verbal (vacikamma), and mental (manokamma).

Thank you Bhikkhu. This is logical because it is consistent with the remainder of the passage.
Cetayitvā kammaṃ karoti – kāyena vācāya manasā.
Intention, I tell you, is kamma. Intending, one does kamma by way of body, speech & mind.
AN 6.63

kāyadaṇḍaṃ, vacīdaṇḍaṃ, manodaṇḍa
the bodily rod, the verbal rod, the mental rod
MN 56

For a while I thought I was onto something that was very lofty however that loftiness could not be reconciled with the remainder of the passage that is obviously about generating unskilful & skilful kamma.
If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.
If with a pure mind a person speaks or acts happiness follows him like his never-departing shadow.
Dhp I
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Re: Dhammapada Verse 1: Why 'mano'?

Postby kirk5a » Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:45 pm

The passage actually emphasizes qualities of the mind which, as it says, "preceed" the kamma (speaking or acting). Namely, the quality of either being pure/bright/clear (pasannena) or the quality of being impure/spoiled/corrupted (paduṭṭhena). If it was talking only about skillful/unskillful kamma, there would be no point in saying the mind "preceeds" or is the "chief" of anything.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
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Re: Dhammapada Verse 1: Why 'mano'?

Postby EndlessStream » Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:42 pm

What precedes both 'pasannena' & 'paduṭṭhena' is view (diṭṭhi). MN 117 states [sammā]diṭṭhi pubbaṅgamā hoti: [right] view is the forerunner.
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Re: Dhammapada Verse 1: Why 'mano'?

Postby kirk5a » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:45 am

EndlessStream wrote:What precedes both 'pasannena' & 'paduṭṭhena' is view (diṭṭhi). MN 117 states [sammā]diṭṭhi pubbaṅgamā hoti: [right] view is the forerunner.

MN117 describes two kinds of right view. With noble right view we are right back to qualities of the mind.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
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Re: Dhammapada Verse 1: Why 'mano'?

Postby EndlessStream » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:15 am

kirk5a wrote:MN117 describes two kinds of right view. With noble right view we are right back to qualities of the mind.

Right view, while being a quality of mind, also determines the quality of other qualities of mind.
Of those, right view is the forerunner. And how is right view the forerunner? In one of right view, right resolve comes into being. In one of right resolve, right speech comes into being. In one of right speech, right action... In one of right action, right livelihood... In one of right livelihood, right effort... In one of right effort, right mindfulness... In one of right mindfulness, right concentration... In one of right concentration, right knowledge... In one of right knowledge, right release comes into being. Thus the learner is endowed with eight factors, and the arahant with ten.

MN 117
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Re: Dhammapada Verse 1: Why 'mano'?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:51 am

"EndlessStream" -- also known as naughty nick -- is the dastardly double nicker first known here as "element," and he has been removed, again, in case anyone wonders why "endlessstream" is no longer posting here.
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People live in one another’s shelter.

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