five precepts and ten Demeritorious Deeds

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Re: five precepts and ten Demeritorious Deeds

Postby waterchan » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:49 am

Yes, of course. I just thought it was a funny idea. Well, I thought it was funny...
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Re: five precepts and ten Demeritorious Deeds

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:58 am

BuddhaSoup wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:The fifth precept is about protecting oneself from heedlessness, it isn't an unwholesome action in the same way the others are.
The other acts are unwholesome regardless of reason, however, intoxicants can be useful in certain circumstances such as when it is used as a preservative ingredient, pain relief, or as a medicine. These "neutral" uses are also allowable for mendicants in proper context/amounts.


Cittasanto, I have a question for you, if you don't mind. I know that you were an Anagarika. I was for a brief time a samanera in Thailand, and wish to take this year permanent 8 precepts; Anagarika precepts. My hope is to be a solid 8 precept practitioner. Articles like this https://www.yahoo.com/food/is-red-wine- ... 88911.html always raise a question for me. I do not drink to excess, and have only, until this year, drank a glass or two of red wine. Approaching the summer and wishing to request of my abbot to take the full 8 precepts for life, I stopped drinking anything with alcohol in it. However, science suggests there really are health benefits to drinking small amounts of red wine for men, especially men of my age...over 50.

As has been discussed, consuming intoxicants leads to heedlessness. However, can in your opinion a half a glass of red wine for health reasons alone be medicinal, and an ethical exception to the rules?

After reading Culaavuso's post mentioning Resveratrol I have corrected what I wrote and here is a link to the natural occurrences from wikipedia

Happy to hear from anyone on this subject...thanks in advance to Cittasanto.

Hello Avuso (friend),
One point before I continue. News articles of this sort are not written by science correspondents, and no more than an opinion pieces with a very generalised fact.
But I will continue...
You need to know what is in the red wine that has health benefits. from what I understand from previously looking at this, it is the Resveratrol from the skin that has the beneficial effects. Not all red wine has the same quantity. As an example, old world (France...) wines tend to have more in than new world wines (Australia...) due to the length of time the whole grape is left in during the fermentation process. But then again not all wine uses the same grape varieties, and different varieties have differing levels of the Resveratrol in the skin. So even using old world wines would not guarantee the maximum benefit.
As the health benefits only come from one part that can be sourced from elsewhere I would say that it would not fall under what I would consider an exception.

PM me if you want a chat regarding Anagarika things.
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Re: five precepts and ten Demeritorious Deeds

Postby Anagarika » Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:57 am

waterchan wrote:Yes, of course. I just thought it was a funny idea. Well, I thought it was funny...


Sorry, if humor was intended. Hard to say something with tongue in cheek over the internet. Either that, or I'm the last to get a good joke, and I've been accused of that before... :)

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Re: five precepts and ten Demeritorious Deeds

Postby Anagarika » Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:06 am

Cittasanto wrote:
BuddhaSoup wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:Hello Avuso (friend),
One point before I continue. News articles of this sort are not written by science correspondents, and no more than an opinion pieces with a very generalised fact.
But I will continue...
You need to know what is in the red wine that has health benefits. from what I understand from previously looking at this, it is the Resveratrol from the skin that has the beneficial effects. Not all red wine has the same quantity. As an example, old world (France...) wines tend to have more in than new world wines (Australia...) due to the length of time the whole grape is left in during the fermentation process. But then again not all wine uses the same grape varieties, and different varieties have differing levels of the Resveratrol in the skin. So even using old world wines would not guarantee the maximum benefit.
As the health benefits only come from one part that can be sourced from elsewhere I would say that it would not fall under what I would consider an exception.

PM me if you want a chat regarding Anagarika things.


Thanks, Cittasanto. Looks like I'll be canceling that order of a case of Malbec. :0)

As for the Anagarika issues, yes, I will PM you. I am unsure just how many folks on DW, or in Theravada practice in general, maintain 8 precepts 24/7/365. I've been reading a bit of the life of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anagarika_Dharmapala , and other inspirational figures that lived the 8 precepts for life. It would be interesting to see if there is a community of people that maintain 8 precepts full time; I've not yet run across any, other than those that live at a Wat full time in a sangha of Bhikkhus/Bhikkhunis and samaneras.
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