Once-returning vs non-returning

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Stephen K
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Once-returning vs non-returning

Postby Stephen K » Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:13 pm

Non-returning is obviously a superior attainment to once-returning.

And yet, the once-returner comes back one more time as a human being and attains Nibbana, while the non-returner is reborn in the pure abodes and stays there for eons before attaining Nibbana.

So it seems, if I understand it correctly, that it takes the once-returner far less time to attain Nibbana? And that would mean once-returning is the preferred option since one will escape samsara far sooner? Or have I got something wrong here?
“The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall.” – Nelson Mandela

My philosophy is simple: saying 'yes' to the positive and 'no' to the negative.

With much metta,
Stephen K (Upāsaka Sumana)

culaavuso
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Re: Once-returning vs non-returning

Postby culaavuso » Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:39 pm

Stephen K wrote:Or have I got something wrong here?

This reasoning seems to conflate Nibbana with Parinibbana.

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Stephen K
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Re: Once-returning vs non-returning

Postby Stephen K » Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:01 pm

culaavuso wrote:
Stephen K wrote:Or have I got something wrong here?

This reasoning seems to conflate Nibbana with Parinibbana.

Could you expand a bit on that? :smile:
“The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall.” – Nelson Mandela

My philosophy is simple: saying 'yes' to the positive and 'no' to the negative.

With much metta,
Stephen K (Upāsaka Sumana)

Bakmoon
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Re: Once-returning vs non-returning

Postby Bakmoon » Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:05 pm

Stephen K wrote:
culaavuso wrote:
Stephen K wrote:Or have I got something wrong here?

This reasoning seems to conflate Nibbana with Parinibbana.

Could you expand a bit on that? :smile:


What he means is that it could be true that a once returner would enter into parinibbana before a non returner, that doesn't nessisarily mean that the once returner would attain Arahatship before the once returner.
The non-doing of any evil,
The performance of what's skillful,
The cleansing of one's own mind:
This is the Buddhas' teaching.

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Stephen K
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Re: Once-returning vs non-returning

Postby Stephen K » Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:07 pm

I see. Thanks.
“The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall.” – Nelson Mandela

My philosophy is simple: saying 'yes' to the positive and 'no' to the negative.

With much metta,
Stephen K (Upāsaka Sumana)

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Once-returning vs non-returning

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:16 pm

Stephen K wrote:And yet, the once-returner comes back one more time as a human being and attains Nibbana,


Not necessarily, the once-returner comes back as either human or deva. And the deva realm could also be for aeons. Many of the reports of once-returners in the Suttas actually went to deva realms, not human.

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Re: Once-returning vs non-returning

Postby Ananda26 » Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:15 pm

Stephen K wrote:Non-returning is obviously a superior attainment to once-returning.

And yet, the once-returner comes back one more time as a human being and attains Nibbana, while the non-returner is reborn in the pure abodes and stays there for eons before attaining Nibbana.

So it seems, if I understand it correctly, that it takes the once-returner far less time to attain Nibbana? And that would mean once-returning is the preferred option since one will escape samsara far sooner? Or have I got something wrong here?


With the abandoning of 3 fetters and the weakaning of lust, hatred, and delusion one has become a once returner and having returned once more to this world will put an end to suffering.

As I understand the wording of the once-returner description he could still attain Never Returner while in this world and then be reborn in the pure abodes.


Never Returner is closer to Arahant than Once Returner. The lifespan of a deva in the pure abodes is longer.

If you're planning to attain Arahant then you should prepare to undertake a monastic way of life, because it the nature of the Arahant to like the monastic way of life as Buddha has taught.

If he then returns to this world he would either attain Arahantship or Never Returner in that life.


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