Did Buddha teach about judgement or judging?

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Did Buddha teach about judgement or judging?

Postby SarathW » Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:45 am

Did Buddha teach about judgement or judging?
If so what is the Pali word for it?
Can you give some reference?
:thinking:
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Re: Did Buddha teach about judgement or judging?

Postby cooran » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:07 am

Hello Sarath,

The Pali terms are in this English-Pali Dictionary - scroll down:

http://www.budsas.org/ebud/dict-ep/dictep-j.htm

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Did Buddha teach about judgement or judging?

Postby culaavuso » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:13 am

Depending on the sense of "judgement" intended, the Pali word pajānāti may be relevant.

Discernment by Ven. Thanissaro Bhikkhu wrote:The Pali word for discernment, pañña, is often translated as "wisdom." However, there are two connected reasons for translating it as "discernment" instead. The first relates to the place of pañña in the Pali language. It's related to the verb pajanati, which refers to the mental act that discerns events and actions, detecting when they are distinct from one another and when they are connected as causes and effects. Pajanati also refers to the act of judging intentions by their effects and discerning subtle phenomena that are ordinarily hard to detect.


The link to Ven. Thanissaro Bhikkhu's book above has a discussion of the term and many sutta references to help put it in context.
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Re: Did Buddha teach about judgement or judging?

Postby SarathW » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:34 am

Is that?
judicial : (adj.) nītyanugata.

judicially : (adv.) nītyanukūlattena.

judiciary : (m.) akkhadassasanūha. (f.) adhikaraṇasabhā.

judicious : (adj.) dhammānugata; yuttiyutta; vīmaṃsakārī.



Thanks.
I see this word used in Abrahamic religions a lot.
Not to be judgemental etc. :shrug:
eg:He took two cookies instead on one.
Any Sutta reference to understand the meaning and the context of usage of this word?
:)
Last edited by SarathW on Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Did Buddha teach about judgement or judging?

Postby culaavuso » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:53 am

SarathW wrote:I see this word used in Abrahamic religions a lot.
Not to be judgemental etc. :shrug:
Any Sutta reference to understand the meaning and the context of usage of this word?


In the Abrahamic religions it often is in a context of discussing the activities of a legal judge, meaning a person who sits in judgement and determines whether others are good or bad and assigns punishments accordingly. One passage in the Dhammapada seems to deal with this sense of the word judgement:

Dhp 4 (50) wrote:Focus,
not on the rudenesses of others,
not on what they've done
or left undone,
but on what you
have & haven't done
yourself.


Chapter 19 of the Dhammapada is titled "The Judge"

Dhp 19 (256-257) wrote:To pass judgment hurriedly
doesn't mean you're a judge.
The wise one, weighing both
the right judgment & wrong,
judges others impartially —
unhurriedly, in line with the Dhamma,
guarding the Dhamma,
guarded by Dhamma,
intelligent:
he's called a judge.


The discussion in MN 110 and AN 4.192 may also be relevant, although they don't specifically use words for judging or judgement.

Another possibly useful reference is Snp 3.12

Snp 3.12: Dvayatanupassana Sutta wrote:Any stress that comes into play
is all from nutriment
as a requisite
condition.
With the cessation of nutriment,
there is no stress
coming into play.
Knowing this drawback —
that stress comes from nutriment
as a requisite
condition —
comprehending all nutriment,
independent of all nutriment,
rightly seeing
freedom from disease
through the total ending
of fermentations,
judiciously associating,
a judge,
he, an attainer-of-wisdom,
goes beyond judgment,
beyond classification.
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Re: Did Buddha teach about judgement or judging?

Postby SarathW » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:37 am

Thanks. Please see another example:
It seems like equanimity.

==============
Mindfulness is non-judgmental observation.
It is that ability of the mind to observe without criticism.
With this ability, one sees things without condemnation or judgment.
One is surprised by nothing.
One simply takes a balanced interest in things exactly as they are in their natural states.
One does not decide and does not judge.
One just observes.
==========
Page 83

http://www.stefan.gr/buddhism/books/hen ... nglish.pdf
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Re: Did Buddha teach about judgement or judging?

Postby Ananda26 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:25 pm

SarathW wrote:Did Buddha teach about judgement or judging?
If so what is the Pali word for it?
Can you give some reference?
:thinking:


Buddha taught the monks discipline. We use the word Vinaya to refer to the discipline in general.
Last edited by Ananda26 on Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Did Buddha teach about judgement or judging?

Postby Spiny Norman » Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:39 pm

SarathW wrote:Thanks. Please see another example:
It seems like equanimity.

==============
Mindfulness is non-judgmental observation.
It is that ability of the mind to observe without criticism.
With this ability, one sees things without condemnation or judgment.
One is surprised by nothing.
One simply takes a balanced interest in things exactly as they are in their natural states.
One does not decide and does not judge.
One just observes.
==========
Page 83

http://www.stefan.gr/buddhism/books/hen ... nglish.pdf


Fair enought, but what about Right Effort? Surely that involves judgement in the sense of discernment?
Well, oi dunno...
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Re: Did Buddha teach about judgement or judging?

Postby piotr » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:09 am

Hi SarathW,

This sutta might be of your interest:

    Therefore, Ānanda, do not be judgmental regarding people. Do not pass judgment on people. Those who pass judgment on people harm themselves. I alone, or one like me, may pass judgment on people.

    — Migasālā Sutta (AN 6.44), translated from the Pāli by Bhikkhu Bodhi

The Pāli word here is pamāṇa which means "measure, size, amount".
Last edited by piotr on Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Did Buddha teach about judgement or judging?

Postby Anagarika » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:23 am

SarathW wrote:Thanks. Please see another example:
It seems like equanimity.

==============
Mindfulness is non-judgmental observation.
It is that ability of the mind to observe without criticism.
With this ability, one sees things without condemnation or judgment.
One is surprised by nothing.
One simply takes a balanced interest in things exactly as they are in their natural states.
One does not decide and does not judge.
One just observes.
==========
Page 83

http://www.stefan.gr/buddhism/books/hen ... nglish.pdf


SarathW, this passage seems to me the western take on mindfulness. The mindfulness that I discern ( via Ven. Thanissaro's explanation) through the Canon is more active, and involves memory, recall, discernment. It does not take things just as they are, and observes them, but rather, takes things as they are and measures them against what is skillful or unskillful, using remembrance and discernment. It is the quality that, as Thanissaro describes, keeps us on the right path, making some level of judgment about what is skillful, or not... It is this quality of recall, discernment and a sila based focus that, to me, distinguishes western notions of mindfulness from the sati that the Buddha described.
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