Help Friend or Ordain now?

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Help Friend or Ordain now?

Postby Strive4Karuna » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:56 am

I'm tired of being a layman wasting my life like this. My best friend needs 50k to build a hut. Hes a monk in Vietnam. He originally asked me for money, because my family was rich but my dad gambled it all away. I told him I would help him, but I dont want to waste 2 years of my life like this. The truth is, he really doesnt need the hut to practice. He told me not to worry, but when I facetime with him over my Iphone I can see he is suffering even though he tells me hes not. He tells me not to worry, forget about it. I'm stressing right now. I want to go. Im tired of being a layman but feel I have to help him when I really dont want to because I need to keep my word. If I tell him no, he will be 100% fine with it, but I want to be a person of my word, but im literally giving up 2 years of my life to get that 50k just to help him for nothing but a hut. I feel small hearted. Now because I made that promise, no matter what he tells me, not to worry or whatever, I have to suffer for 2 years when I dont even think the cause is worth it because any solitary place with the right conditions can be a good place to practice. Maybe I shouldnt have said I would help him no matter what, but when I think about it, whether he really needs that money for the hut or not, my conclusion is no. Practice is anywhere. We do not need a hut. Any solitary place will do be it a cave or whatever. Maybe it is wrong of me to judge him, but this is how I feel. He is a monk and I feel like I know better then him. He is suffering over nothing right now and I am suffering because my destiny is to become a monk, and now I must sacrifice for 2 more years when I cant take being a layman anymore. I dont do things half-way. There is no such thing as practice at home for me. I either dedicate myself 100% to the practice or not, there is no such thing as staying at home practicing for 1 hour 2 hours a day. Its 24 hours or nothing to me. On top of this, I feel small hearted and wonder whether my compassion is strong enough for even saying this or having a thought like this. The thing is, If he asked me for 50,000 in order to save his life, for something useful, I would do it in a blink of an eye. It is 50k for a hut I dont even believe he needs.

Another thing. Im currently living at home with my parents and sister and brother. I'm going no where like this and it is impeding my development internally,mentally. Im 21, I got to move out now and start growing up but If I move out and find a place of my own it will take me 3-4x as long to raise that money because I will need to pay for rent. On top of that I need about 10k to travel in order to find a place to ordain. So I need about 60k and right now I have like $10.

Another thing, yall need to stop wasting your time on Dhammawheel and practice the way your suppose to because I wonder how many of you guys are actually practicing the way you ought to if you expect to make serious progress. I'm sure some of you are, but for those who frequent this site everyday instead of spending that time to practice, your doing nothing but wasting your time tricking yourself into believing your a student on the path but your nothing but a spoon who has never tasted the real fruits.

Pce.
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Re: Help Friend or Ordain now?

Postby waterchan » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:18 am

Strive4Karuna wrote:but for those who frequent this site everyday instead of spending that time to practice, your doing nothing but wasting your time tricking yourself into believing your a student on the path but your nothing but a spoon who has never tasted the real fruits.


Tsk tsk, naughty Ven Pesala and Ven Gavesako, time wasting spoons who have never tasted the real fruits.

Seriously, Dhamma Wheel is part of my pariyatti. I've learned a lot from the posts and especially the links that get posted on these forums.
quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
(Anything in Latin sounds profound.)
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Re: Help Friend or Ordain now?

Postby Jeffrey » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:18 am

This cost $30000 to build in the US.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/1 ... 69721.html

What kind of meditation hut costs 50000 in VN?
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Re: Help Friend or Ordain now?

Postby David N. Snyder » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:44 am

Bhikkhu Bodhi wrote:People new to Buddhism often take the Dharma to be a purely individual path of spiritual development. They imagine that the only correct way to follow the Dharma is to lock oneself up in one’s room, turn off the lights, and devote all one’s efforts to practicing meditation. However, if we look at the Buddhist texts, we would see that the Buddha again and again stressed the value of spiritual friendship as a support for the Buddhist path throughout the entire course of its practice. On one occasion the Venerable Ananda, the Buddha’s attendant, came to the Buddha and said that in his view half the spiritual life revolves around spiritual friendship. The Buddha immediately corrected him and said, “Do not say this, Ananda! Do not say this, Ananda! Spiritual friendship is not half the spiritual life. It’s the entire spiritual life!” Then, with reference to himself, the Buddha added, “In this whole world, I am the supreme spiritual friend of living beings, because it is in dependence upon me, by relying upon me, that those who are subject to birth, old age, and death become liberated from birth, old age, and death.”
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=18507
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Re: Help Friend or Ordain now?

Postby David N. Snyder » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:49 am

How do you know if you could even save up 25k to give him in 2 years? Life happens, things happen, you might get a job and then also have expenses. There are many people who work good paying jobs just to pay basic bills, with little to almost nothing to go toward savings. 50k seems excessive for a hut. It should buy almost a whole building.
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Re: Help Friend or Ordain now?

Postby SarathW » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:51 am

Thanks David.
We all are in different stages of development hence it is not necessary all to be monks.
Ven. Pesala once said that monkhood is another vocation.
So it is another choice you have, how you want to attain your goal.
Dhamma discussions (Dhamma Wheel etc) are part of your gradual development.
I have a great respect for the monks in DW, as they are brave enough to put their neck on the line.
:jedi:
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Re: Help Friend or Ordain now?

Postby Strive4Karuna » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:17 am

There must good practioners on this site, this is why I said "for those" and not all. Those who have left the home life I truly have respect for. They have done what I wish to do and have not yet done. However, it is impossible to say there arent many slackers on this website. When you have thousands of post and are posting everyday asking questions, what would the Buddha say if he was here today? I'm pretty sure 99% of the people on DW including myself would get it from the Buddha.
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Re: Help Friend or Ordain now?

Postby James the Giant » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:44 am

FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS for a hut in Vietnam?? You can rent a whole two storey house in Ho Chi Min City for $200 per month. Something is seriously wrong with your friend if he wants fifty K for a hut.
For fifty thousand you can get your friend a nice house in the suburbs, far nicer than what most Vietnamese live in, and pay rent for TWENTY YEARS.
Become a monk.
Someone somewhere in ancient writings said a monk's shelter was sufficient if during a storm it kept the monk's knees dry while he was meditating.
Something smells real fishy, bro.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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Re: Help Friend or Ordain now?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:58 am

Strive4Karuna wrote:I'm tired of being a layman wasting my life like this. My best friend needs 50k to build a hut. Hes a monk in Vietnam. He originally asked me for money, because my family was rich but my dad gambled it all away. I told him I would help him, but I dont want to waste 2 years of my life like this. The truth is, he really doesnt need the hut to practice. He told me not to worry, but when I facetime with him over my Iphone I can see he is suffering even though he tells me hes not. He tells me not to worry, forget about it. I'm stressing right now. I want to go. Im tired of being a layman but feel I have to help him when I really dont want to because I need to keep my word. If I tell him no, he will be 100% fine with it, but I want to be a person of my word, but im literally giving up 2 years of my life to get that 50k just to help him for nothing but a hut. I feel small hearted. Now because I made that promise, no matter what he tells me, not to worry or whatever, I have to suffer for 2 years when I dont even think the cause is worth it because any solitary place with the right conditions can be a good place to practice. Maybe I shouldnt have said I would help him no matter what, but when I think about it, whether he really needs that money for the hut or not, my conclusion is no. Practice is anywhere. We do not need a hut. Any solitary place will do be it a cave or whatever. Maybe it is wrong of me to judge him, but this is how I feel. He is a monk and I feel like I know better then him. He is suffering over nothing right now and I am suffering because my destiny is to become a monk, and now I must sacrifice for 2 more years when I cant take being a layman anymore. I dont do things half-way. There is no such thing as practice at home for me. I either dedicate myself 100% to the practice or not, there is no such thing as staying at home practicing for 1 hour 2 hours a day. Its 24 hours or nothing to me. On top of this, I feel small hearted and wonder whether my compassion is strong enough for even saying this or having a thought like this. The thing is, If he asked me for 50,000 in order to save his life, for something useful, I would do it in a blink of an eye. It is 50k for a hut I dont even believe he needs.

Another thing. Im currently living at home with my parents and sister and brother. I'm going no where like this and it is impeding my development internally,mentally. Im 21, I got to move out now and start growing up but If I move out and find a place of my own it will take me 3-4x as long to raise that money because I will need to pay for rent. On top of that I need about 10k to travel in order to find a place to ordain. So I need about 60k and right now I have like $10.

Another thing, yall need to stop wasting your time on Dhammawheel and practice the way your suppose to because I wonder how many of you guys are actually practicing the way you ought to if you expect to make serious progress. I'm sure some of you are, but for those who frequent this site everyday instead of spending that time to practice, your doing nothing but wasting your time tricking yourself into believing your a student on the path but your nothing but a spoon who has never tasted the real fruits.

Pce.


Hello

I'm sorry for being so direct, but this makes no sense whatsoever. My apartment in my home town was about $50 000. May I sugest a working hypothesis? Maybe it's useful, maybe not. You are so afraid of ordaining that you are making blatantly irrational excuses up, believing that you are such a good person that you must keep your word to build a hut in Vietnam that costs the same as a new apartment in a first world town. And that for this to happen, you have to spend between 2 and 10 years working as a lay person.

But another angle is this: the suttas say that there are 4 kinds of people, each superior to the previous: 1- a person who neither works for his own benefit, nor others' ; 2- a person who only works for other people's happiness bennefit ; 3- a person who works only for his own bennefit; 4- a person who works for both his bennefit and others' ; Notice that the suttas consider 3 superior to 2. I believe this refers to spiritual work.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
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Re: Help Friend or Ordain now?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:06 am

James the Giant wrote:FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS for a hut in Vietnam?? You can rent a whole two storey house in Ho Chi Min City for $200 per month. Something is seriously wrong with your friend if he wants fifty K for a hut.
For fifty thousand you can get your friend a nice house in the suburbs, far nicer than what most Vietnamese live in, and pay rent for TWENTY YEARS.
Become a monk.
Someone somewhere in ancient writings said a monk's shelter was sufficient if during a storm it kept the monk's knees dry while he was meditating.
Something smells real fishy, bro.


Exactly. And the fishy part, in my opinion, is that the obstacle to strive4karuna's ordination is not really his perceived obligation. It's the blatant irrationality he is exibiting, bordering on the pathological.

Or maybe this is trolling. Or I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Still, it's a working hypothesis to be explored by someone who wants to train the mind.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
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Re: Help Friend or Ordain now?

Postby waterchan » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:18 am

Oh... I thought he meant 50,000 in Vietnamese money. Dude, give me the fifty thousand dollars. I'll build you a hut in Vietnam and you can become a monk.
quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
(Anything in Latin sounds profound.)
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Re: Help Friend or Ordain now?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:05 am

waterchan wrote:Oh... I thought he meant 50,000 in Vietnamese money. Dude, give me the fifty thousand dollars. I'll build you a hut in Vietnam and you can become a monk.


That would be less than 3 dollars.

EDIT: I just converted now online. I also had that doubt.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
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Re: Help Friend or Ordain now?

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:18 am

Harsh speech, Strive4karuna....

Practise what you preach....

:namaste:
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

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‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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Re: Help Friend or Ordain now?

Postby indian_buddhist » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:22 am

Ok the age limit to ordain at any Monastery is 20 and you are just 1 year above that. It means that you are in the beginning of any development - whether spiritual, mental, experiential.
To give you an example I am 30 and still experiencing the different facets of life and far from ordaining anywhere.
Take it easy i guess.
Identification with my country is one of my fetters.
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Re: Help Friend or Ordain now?

Postby Strive4Karuna » Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:56 pm

I was born to be a monk. I dont know what to say, I only wish you guys the best. There are accounts of lay-people becoming sotapannas, sakadagamins during the Buddhas time, this is a whole different age and I believe it is more difficult then it was before to do the same, not only because of the many technological distractions present in our life that add to the delusions we live in but also because those born in the time of the Buddha had a tremendous amount of merit.

Take care, whether you guys doubt me or not, Im still hoping you become an arahant as quickly as possible.
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Re: Help Friend or Ordain now?

Postby Strive4Karuna » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:02 pm

Also, for those lay-people who are praticing as you should, I commend you because it is Incredibly difficult and the amount of will-power, dilligence and effort needed to avoid the distractions of the lay life are greater then it ever has been. So no, this wasnt suppose to be smack to those who are lay-people. This was suppose to motivate those who need motivation and I dont care, however harsh speach is, If I speak from the heart with no ill intention, I will say as wish with no fear.

Pce.
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Re: Help Friend or Ordain now?

Postby santa100 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:18 pm

In the Buddha's teaching, compassion is a invaluable virtue, so is wisdom. We practice not only with our heart but also with our brain. That 50K hut absolutely raises a red flag. What if your friend himself got scammed by some fake monks in Vietnam? If it costs 50k for a hut, then only rich people from first world countries would be able to become monks in Vietnam. Poor and even middle-class people would have zero chance!
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Re: Help Friend or Ordain now?

Postby indian_buddhist » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:30 pm

Strive4Karuna wrote:Also, for those lay-people who are praticing as you should, I commend you because it is Incredibly difficult and the amount of will-power, dilligence and effort needed to avoid the distractions of the lay life are greater then it ever has been. So no, this wasnt suppose to be smack to those who are lay-people. This was suppose to motivate those who need motivation and I dont care, however harsh speach is, If I speak from the heart with no ill intention, I will say as wish with no fear.

Pce.


Dear Friend,

you speak with a true heart. You are only 21, I am confident you will become an Arhant.

Metta.
Identification with my country is one of my fetters.
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Re: Help Friend or Ordain now?

Postby Ananda26 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:15 pm

Strive4Karuna wrote:I'm tired of being a layman wasting my life like this. My best friend needs 50k to build a hut. Hes a monk in Vietnam. He originally asked me for money, because my family was rich but my dad gambled it all away. I told him I would help him, but I dont want to waste 2 years of my life like this. The truth is, he really doesnt need the hut to practice. He told me not to worry, but when I facetime with him over my Iphone I can see he is suffering even though he tells me hes not. He tells me not to worry, forget about it. I'm stressing right now. I want to go. Im tired of being a layman but feel I have to help him when I really dont want to because I need to keep my word. If I tell him no, he will be 100% fine with it, but I want to be a person of my word, but im literally giving up 2 years of my life to get that 50k just to help him for nothing but a hut. I feel small hearted. Now because I made that promise, no matter what he tells me, not to worry or whatever, I have to suffer for 2 years when I dont even think the cause is worth it because any solitary place with the right conditions can be a good place to practice. Maybe I shouldnt have said I would help him no matter what, but when I think about it, whether he really needs that money for the hut or not, my conclusion is no. Practice is anywhere. We do not need a hut. Any solitary place will do be it a cave or whatever. Maybe it is wrong of me to judge him, but this is how I feel. He is a monk and I feel like I know better then him. He is suffering over nothing right now and I am suffering because my destiny is to become a monk, and now I must sacrifice for 2 more years when I cant take being a layman anymore. I dont do things half-way. There is no such thing as practice at home for me. I either dedicate myself 100% to the practice or not, there is no such thing as staying at home practicing for 1 hour 2 hours a day. Its 24 hours or nothing to me. On top of this, I feel small hearted and wonder whether my compassion is strong enough for even saying this or having a thought like this. The thing is, If he asked me for 50,000 in order to save his life, for something useful, I would do it in a blink of an eye. It is 50k for a hut I dont even believe he needs.

Another thing. Im currently living at home with my parents and sister and brother. I'm going no where like this and it is impeding my development internally,mentally. Im 21, I got to move out now and start growing up but If I move out and find a place of my own it will take me 3-4x as long to raise that money because I will need to pay for rent. On top of that I need about 10k to travel in order to find a place to ordain. So I need about 60k and right now I have like $10.

Another thing, yall need to stop wasting your time on Dhammawheel and practice the way your suppose to because I wonder how many of you guys are actually practicing the way you ought to if you expect to make serious progress. I'm sure some of you are, but for those who frequent this site everyday instead of spending that time to practice, your doing nothing but wasting your time tricking yourself into believing your a student on the path but your nothing but a spoon who has never tasted the real fruits.

Pce.


In some places there are already places constructed for the monk to stay and the issue is seeing that these are shared out properly.

Helping other monks and nuns can be a great way in general to prepare to become a monastic and also to make merit as a lay person.

I think you have to be careful about Vietnam though. I not sure how safe it is for everyone these days.

Sounds like your eager to become a monk. That is commendable. The experience that you get helping with a monastic way of life can help prepare you for success in being a monk.

Another thing you can do is be a resident at a monastery. Helping the senior monk, you may find a monastic environment helpful and satisfying to your yearnings to live a monastic way of life.

I think Bhante Henepole Gunarathana may have some experience with the Viethnamese including when many of them came to the U.S.A. You could communicate with the staff there. They are in Bhavana Meditation Society in High View, West Virginia.
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Re: Help Friend or Ordain now?

Postby EmptyShadow » Thu May 01, 2014 7:45 am

If keeping your promise bothers you, explain to your friend how you feel and about your ordination plans and ask him to free you from your promise.That way if he do it, you won't brake any precept or your word. :hello:
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