Why seventh precept split in to two?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism

Why seventh precept split in to two?

Postby SarathW » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:08 am

Why seventh precept split in to two?

The Buddha gave teachings on how the eight precepts are to be practiced,[20] and on the right and wrong ways of practicing the eight precepts.[21]
1.I undertake to abstain from causing harm and taking life (both human and non-human).
2.I undertake to abstain from taking what is not given (for example stealing, displacements that may cause misunderstandings).
3.I undertake to abstain from sexual activity.
4.I undertake to abstain from wrong speech: telling lies, deceiving others, manipulating others, using hurtful words.
5.I undertake to abstain from using intoxicating drinks and drugs, which lead to carelessness.
6.I undertake to abstain from eating at the wrong time (the right time is after sunrise, before noon).
7.I undertake to abstain from singing, dancing, playing music, attending entertainment performances, wearing perfume, and using cosmetics and garlands (decorative accessories).
8.I undertake to abstain from luxurious places for sitting or sleeping, and overindulging in sleep.

============
The Ten Precepts (Pali: dasasila or samanerasikkha) refer to the precepts (training rules) for Buddhist samaneras (novice monks) and samaneris (novice nuns).[22] They are used in most Buddhist schools.
1.Refrain from killing living creatures.
2.Refrain from stealing.
3.Refrain from unchastity (sensuality, sexuality, lust).
4.Refrain from incorrect speech.
5.Refrain from taking intoxicants.
6.Refrain from taking food at inappropriate times (after noon).
7.Refrain from singing, dancing, playing music or attending entertainment programs (performances).
8Refrain from wearing perfume, cosmetics and garland (decorative accessories).
9.Refrain from sitting on high chairs and sleeping on luxurious, soft beds.
10.Refrain from accepting money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Precepts#Ten_Precepts
SarathW
 
Posts: 2035
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Why seventh precept split in to two?

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:32 am

...What is the source of your first example of the 8 precepts?

I don't know the answer to this, it would be interesting to know also.

:namaste:
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
User avatar
TheNoBSBuddhist
 
Posts: 1614
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:06 pm
Location: Loch Lomond, via the High AND Low road....

Re: Why seventh precept split in to two?

Postby Doshin » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:40 pm

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:

...What is the source of your first example of the 8 precepts?


Both examples are copy/paste from the wikipedia page.

_/\_
Knowing about dhamma, does not imply knowing dhamma
User avatar
Doshin
 
Posts: 98
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:01 am

Re: Why seventh precept split in to two?

Postby PsychedelicSunSet » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:37 pm

The factors cannot be combined since the practice differs in content. This precept does not concern just one matter as do other precepts. The first part concerns dancing, singing, watching and listening. The second part involves beautifying the body. Therefore the two parts cannot be turned into a single-faceted precept. These two parts are separated into two precepts when they occur in the context of the Ten Precepts. If these two parts were united as six factors then if the practitioner were to dance, sing, and watch entertainments but were to forgo cosmetics, such a one would not be in conformity with the six factors and the Uposatha would be broken.

-accesstoinsight.com
User avatar
PsychedelicSunSet
 
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:04 pm
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Why seventh precept split in to two?

Postby Sokehi » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:08 pm

I was always wondering as well, good question.

But isn't it the same within the context of the 8 precepts? Singing, Dancing, Entertainment just don't belong to beautification. So it would make more sense as within the dasasilas, so why are there 8 precepts and not 9 just for clarification reasons?
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

https://www.youtube.com/user/Repeataarrr
User avatar
Sokehi
 
Posts: 405
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:27 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Why seventh precept split in to two?

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:29 pm

here is an educated guess.
Cosmetics were not always used for beautification, and were used to protect from the sun also, as can be seen clearly in ancient egypt. It is more likely that for lay people the use of the two were often joined together when they went to a party, or festival, or in the case of a king to show his authority required certain ornaments. yet for a mendicant the two would be separated because they deal with two separate issues.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
User avatar
Cittasanto
 
Posts: 5742
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin

Re: Why seventh precept split in to two?

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:47 pm

10 sounds better; it's a nice round number . . .

User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8040
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Why seventh precept split in to two?

Postby SarathW » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:21 am

Thanks all.
Good video David. I just took it more than a joke.
Modern society is thriving on breaking precepts. (liquor industry, gambling, pawn broking industry, meat industry, prostitution, weapons industry, politicians etc)

The Abrahamic religions should accept the Kamma, rebirth and stress (Dukkha) as a part of their teaching.
Without that, no reason to observe precepts.
:shrug:
SarathW
 
Posts: 2035
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Why seventh precept split in to two?

Postby Ananda26 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:41 pm

SarathW wrote:Why seventh precept split in to two?

The Buddha gave teachings on how the eight precepts are to be practiced,[20] and on the right and wrong ways of practicing the eight precepts.[21]
1.I undertake to abstain from causing harm and taking life (both human and non-human).
2.I undertake to abstain from taking what is not given (for example stealing, displacements that may cause misunderstandings).
3.I undertake to abstain from sexual activity.
4.I undertake to abstain from wrong speech: telling lies, deceiving others, manipulating others, using hurtful words.
5.I undertake to abstain from using intoxicating drinks and drugs, which lead to carelessness.
6.I undertake to abstain from eating at the wrong time (the right time is after sunrise, before noon).
7.I undertake to abstain from singing, dancing, playing music, attending entertainment performances, wearing perfume, and using cosmetics and garlands (decorative accessories).
8.I undertake to abstain from luxurious places for sitting or sleeping, and overindulging in sleep.

============
The Ten Precepts (Pali: dasasila or samanerasikkha) refer to the precepts (training rules) for Buddhist samaneras (novice monks) and samaneris (novice nuns).[22] They are used in most Buddhist schools.
1.Refrain from killing living creatures.
2.Refrain from stealing.
3.Refrain from unchastity (sensuality, sexuality, lust).
4.Refrain from incorrect speech.
5.Refrain from taking intoxicants.
6.Refrain from taking food at inappropriate times (after noon).
7.Refrain from singing, dancing, playing music or attending entertainment programs (performances).
8Refrain from wearing perfume, cosmetics and garland (decorative accessories).
9.Refrain from sitting on high chairs and sleeping on luxurious, soft beds.
10.Refrain from accepting money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Precepts#Ten_Precepts


10 is a nice round even number with the 8.
Ananda26
 
Posts: 171
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:41 pm

Re: Why seventh precept split in to two?

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:58 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:10 sounds better; it's a nice round number . . .



Ah, But, Mr. Snyder.... Are you suggesting we hone the precepts down to two....?

Perhaps His Holiness the Dalai Lama was thinking this way, when he advised:

Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them.


:woohoo:


:namaste:
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
User avatar
TheNoBSBuddhist
 
Posts: 1614
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:06 pm
Location: Loch Lomond, via the High AND Low road....

Re: Why seventh precept split in to two?

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:45 pm

Mainly meant as tongue-in-cheek, humor, but if we wanted we could have just one:

1. No taking what is not given, i.e. theft:
which includes:

Not stealing someone's life (1st precept)
Not taking someone's property (2nd precept)
Not taking someone's innocence or partner (3rd precept)
Not taking someone's ability to know true information (4th precept)
Not taking someone's peace and quiet away through intoxication (5th precept)

But of course that wouldn't work with the expanded 8, 10, 227 and 311 precepts.
User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8040
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Why seventh precept split in to two?

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:54 pm

Well....it might.... But it would be an awful lot of work and condensing.....!

No, I am not up to the task, before you enquire!!

:jumping:

:namaste:

(Yes, just a little bit of fun.....!)
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
User avatar
TheNoBSBuddhist
 
Posts: 1614
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:06 pm
Location: Loch Lomond, via the High AND Low road....


Return to General Theravāda discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], vinasp and 20 guests