Two living Arahants - are they same or different?

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SarathW
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Two living Arahants - are they same or different?

Postby SarathW » Wed May 07, 2014 5:27 am

Two living Arahants - are they same or different?
:thinking:

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cooran
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Re: Two living Arahants - are they same or different?

Postby cooran » Wed May 07, 2014 6:02 am

Hello Sarath,

I don't wish to offend, but isn't this just papanca?

http://www.leighb.com/papanca.htm

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Mr Man
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Re: Two living Arahants - are they same or different?

Postby Mr Man » Wed May 07, 2014 6:37 am

cooran wrote:Hello Sarath,

I don't wish to offend, but isn't this just papanca?

http://www.leighb.com/papanca.htm

With metta,
Chris


Is there a thread on here that is papanca free?

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Mkoll
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Re: Two living Arahants - are they same or different?

Postby Mkoll » Wed May 07, 2014 7:13 am

Mr Man wrote:
cooran wrote:Hello Sarath,

I don't wish to offend, but isn't this just papanca?

http://www.leighb.com/papanca.htm

With metta,
Chris


Is there a thread on here that is papanca free?

I don't think that's actually possible, here or anywhere else on the internets.

:rofl:
Peace,
James

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Re: Two living Arahants - are they same or different?

Postby chethinie » Wed May 07, 2014 7:34 am

Hi Sarath,

From the very limited knowledge I have and from what I have understood so far, I think Two living Arahants are not the same. I might be wrong, but this is how I see it so far :-)

An arahanth means, a person who has gained a full insight into the true nature of things. In simple terms, they do not have a "Chethana Chaithisika" and they do not create new Sankara. However, their human qualities (Characteristics?) can be different. One could be shy and timid while the other could be more outgoing and outspoken etc. I remember in one of the suttas (I cannot remember the name of the sutta or the name of the monk) there was this Arahant monk in Buddha's time and he spoke harsh words often to address the people (i.e. in Sinhala terms - Umba, tho. wareng, palayang etc) and the people did not like his way of speaking and they complained to Buddha about it. The buddha said to them that he doesn't mean at all to offend anyone but he does it because of his habbits in his previous lives. He said that this monk have been born 500 times at a strech in upper class and ruling families. Likewise, thre was another monk who was eating alot and still he was hungry inspite however much he ate and the Buddha said it was due he being born as an elephant over many times in his previous births.

Chethinie

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Re: Two living Arahants - are they same or different?

Postby SarathW » Thu May 15, 2014 1:30 am

cooran wrote:Hello Sarath,

I don't wish to offend, but isn't this just papanca?

http://www.leighb.com/papanca.htm

With metta,
Chris


Even though I could not attain Arahantship by reading your post.
Thank you for directing my attention to a very important teaching of Buddha. :)
Papanca is a mental state not understood by many. (I understood that only yesterday)
Please read Chapter 11 and 12 of link below for full appreciation of this.
=============
"From whatever source papañcasaññasakha beset a man, if, in
regard to that, there is nothing to be delighted in, asserted, or clung
to, then this itself is the end of the underlying tendencies to attachment,
to aversion, to views, to doubts, to conceit, to attachment towards
existence, and to ignorance. This itself is the end of taking
rods and weapons, quarrels, disputes, accusations, slander and false
speech. Here these evil unskilful states cease without remainder."

http://www.seeingthroughthenet.net/file ... ed_III.pdf

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Re: Two living Arahants - are they same or different?

Postby David N. Snyder » Thu May 15, 2014 2:34 am

SarathW wrote:Two living Arahants - are they same or different?
:thinking:


Their wisdom is the same; but how they got there and what their specialty is might be different. For example, Moggallana was the chief in supernormal powers and abilities and Sariputta was more of the scholar, the "general of the Dhamma."

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Re: Two living Arahants - are they same or different?

Postby pegembara » Thu May 15, 2014 5:27 am

The arahants like the Buddha are traceless. Nothing can be said about "them" in the sense that they have ceased to exist in the way we would normally describe things. They are not their physical form nor their character which are the product of causes and conditions. They are not identified with their outward manifestations which is not who they are.

......that form by which one describing the Tathagata might describe him has been abandoned by the Tathagata, cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated so that it is no more subject to future arising. The Tathagata, great king, is liberated from reckoning in terms of form; he is deep, immeasurable, hard to fathom like the great ocean.

That feeling by which one describing the Tathagata might describe him … That perception by which one describing the Tathagata might describe him ... Those volitional formations by which one describing the Tathagata might describe him ... That consciousness by which one describing the Tathagata might describe him has been abandoned by the Tathagata, cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated so that it is no more subject to future arising.

http://suttacentral.net/en/sn44.1
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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Re: Two living Arahants - are they same or different?

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:24 pm

:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....

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Re: Two living Arahants - are they same or different?

Postby khaaan » Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:20 pm

SarathW wrote:Two living Arahants - are they same or different?


Two living arahants are different. Consider, for instance, the Buddha's chief disciples, Sariputta and Maha-Moggallana. There were numerous differences between them, including their personalities and areas of expertise. If I remember right, Sariputta was more gentle while Maha-Moggallana was more severe. Sariputta specialized in getting people through the gateway of stream entry while Maha-Moggallana specialized at training them for the attainment of arahantship. e Of the two, Sariputta had a more comprehensive understanding of the dhamma while Maha-Maggollana was more of an expert in using the psychic abilities attained through jhanas. I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

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Re: Two living Arahants - are they same or different?

Postby bharadwaja » Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:32 pm

Any two persons who have realized nibbana are the same with regard to their nondual/non-compounded nature (nibbana), but different as regards their individual ("compounded") attributes.

SarathW
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Re: Two living Arahants - are they same or different?

Postby SarathW » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:29 am

I see your point Bharadwaja. :)

In conventionally speaking they have different qualities.
In ultimately speaking they are the same.

Some other link related to OP:

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=21266#p301011

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Re: Two living Arahants - are they same or different?

Postby MidGe » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:45 am

Obviously the Rupakhanda of two arahants are different. They do look different after all. The other four khandas are different too. There is a different inpingements on the sense bases for each of them, different feeling responses, and ultimately comsciousness of it all, etc.

Being anatta both, or not being, is the sense in which they are the same as each other and as the Buddha.

With metta
Last edited by MidGe on Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Two living Arahants - are they same or different?

Postby LXNDR » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:50 am

they are not the same because their old kamma is not the same, their old sankharas are different

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Re: Two living Arahants - are they same or different?

Postby Spiny Norman » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:18 am

Mr Man wrote:Is there a thread on here that is papanca free?


And one person's papanca is another person's valued opinion. ;)

But seriously, it might be another way of understanding the goal, ie Arahantship.
"I ride tandem with the random, Things don't run the way I planned them, In the humdrum."
Peter Gabriel lyric

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Re: Two living Arahants - are they same or different?

Postby seeker242 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:52 am

I think you can say "same and different" with regards to Arahants is "not applicable". How you put a label on something that is "uncreated"?? It's impossible!


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