Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:38 pm


I assumed - reasonably, in my opinion - that you chose to use that Grinning-Emoticon to show that you were trying to be funny. You make a lot of jokes.

Actually, perusal of the emoticons at the bottom, will reveal that it is merely intended to be a smile, not a grin. Don't blame me for how the emoticons come out.

A good sense of humour is invaluable, at any time, when dealing with others.

Everything is just grist to the mill.

I was merely intersted in just how far back you have managed to remember.
My cousin swears he can remember being circumcised as well, and I was merely "comparing notes".
(Although he personally admits that his memory is 'coloured' by later influence and study of the subject. He remembers 'pain' but cannot remember if the pain is real or imagined. There again, every memory, is "imagined".)

You are very defensive.
While I can understand why to a point, I fail to see why, if you are this reluctant to discuss the details and minutiae, you even decided to mention it in the first place.
Did you not know that such a statement, albeit on-topic, would provoke a detailed discussion?

Still, in all and every case, I wish you well.

With Metta.

:smile:

(Hopefully, that one is more to your liking.)
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Postby rowboat » Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:09 pm

NoBSBuddhist: I fail to see why, if you are this reluctant to discuss the details and minutiae, you even decided to mention it in the first place.

Did you not know that such a statement, albeit on-topic, would provoke a detailed discussion?


From where do you get the impression that I am reluctant to discuss questions about rebirth or my specific recollections about rebirth? (Admittedly I did not expect to be questioned about my penis or whether I was Jewish.)

If I seem defensive it may be due to the fact that your responses to me seem a bit strange, ad hoc and just a little convoluted.

How far back do I remember? In this present life, to the day of my birth. (Although the chain between this life and my immediately previous life in the catumaharajika deva loka is only briefly interrupted by the darkness of the womb.) In terms of previous lives, I have things in clear chronological order for seven lives, but beyond that it's difficult, and then the memories themselves are more remote to me. (I have a very few memories of Sakka's Realm, and also of what must have been a rather high loka.)
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Postby Mr Man » Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:31 pm

SamKR wrote:For rowboat it is irrevocable and certain.
I do personally have irrevocable and certain evidence of rebirth.



So rowboat is saying that he has had experiences that give him a strong conviction in rebirth?
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:43 pm

From where do you get the impression that I am reluctant to discuss questions about rebirth or my specific recollections about rebirth?


From this morsel of your opener....

I've intentionally left out the most interesting previous life that I can remember. It is from the time of the Buddha. If any bhikkhu would like to know more about this I am happy to be contacted via PM. (I have a number of details which perhaps can be independently confirmed.)
...
Two reasons. I have to obey my heart in this matter. And because it's deeply personal.
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Postby Mkoll » Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:02 pm

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:
From where do you get the impression that I am reluctant to discuss questions about rebirth or my specific recollections about rebirth?


From this morsel of your opener....

I've intentionally left out the most interesting previous life that I can remember. It is from the time of the Buddha. If any bhikkhu would like to know more about this I am happy to be contacted via PM. (I have a number of details which perhaps can be independently confirmed.)
...
Two reasons. I have to obey my heart in this matter. And because it's deeply personal.

rowboat, it's very clear from what TNBSB quoted you saying that you are reluctant to discuss questions about your rebirths, specifically the cliffhanger in your opener.
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Postby rowboat » Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:04 pm

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:
From where do you get the impression that I am reluctant to discuss questions about rebirth or my specific recollections about rebirth?


From this morsel of your opener....

I've intentionally left out the most interesting previous life that I can remember. It is from the time of the Buddha. If any bhikkhu would like to know more about this I am happy to be contacted via PM. (I have a number of details which perhaps can be independently confirmed.)
...
Two reasons. I have to obey my heart in this matter. And because it's deeply personal.


Unfortunately not everything I remember is appropriate to discuss with the lay community. I thought I was clear that only this one instance was closed to discussion.

Mkoll: rowboat, it's very clear from what TNBSB quoted you saying that you are reluctant to discuss questions about your rebirths, specifically the cliffhanger in your opener.


Once again, as anyone can clearly see from the quotation, it's only this one instance that I've mentioned to be exluded from discussion. (And to preclude the next question; I only spoke of this in the first place in the remote hopes that an ordained individual might feel curious enough or interested to contact me directly in the future.
Last edited by rowboat on Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:06 pm

Hard to see why when we've negotiated our way round circumcisions and cultural provenance. (I never actually even mentioned your penis; you did.)
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Postby Mkoll » Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:26 pm

rowboat wrote:Mkoll: rowboat, it's very clear from what TNBSB quoted you saying that you are reluctant to discuss questions about your rebirths, specifically the cliffhanger in your opener.

Once again, as anyone can clearly see from the quotation, it's only this one instance that I've mentioned to be exluded from discussion. (And to preclude the next question; I only spoke of this in the first place in the remote hopes that an ordained individual might feel curious enough or interested to contact me directly in the future.

No, it was not clear, it was contradictory. You said this:

rowboat wrote:From where do you get the impression that I am reluctant to discuss questions about rebirth or my specific recollections about rebirth?


. . . even though you were clearly reluctant to discuss that rebirth from your first post. What you said later contradicted what you said before.

Instead, if you had added something like what I've underlined below:

"From where do you get the impression that I am reluctant to discuss questions about rebirth or my specific recollections about rebirth, other than the one I've said I'm not talking about?"


. . . then there would have been no contradiction at all.

~~~

We all make mistakes in our writing/speaking or accidentally contradict ourselves from time to time. It happens.
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Postby rowboat » Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:29 pm

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:Hard to see why when we've negotiated our way round circumcisions and cultural provenance. (I never actually even mentioned your penis; you did.)


TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:
rowboat wrote:
NoBSBuddhist: In that life, were you born to Jewish parents, then? :)


Your silly "throwaway" comment has pointed out to me that I could have worded things better. To clarify, I was speaking about this present life; "Since before I could walk... I remember the day I was born...


Actually, it was not intended to be a 'throwaway' comment. The question was quite serious.
I merely wondered if you had been born to a Jewish family.
Or else, why would you have been circumcised?
There is no religious basis, if you are not Jewish; and to be circumcised on the day of your birth is extraordinarily irregular, and not practised unless it is a medical emergency, which would not be perceived immediately...

rowboat: So you were quite seriously merely wondering...

I assumed - reasonably, in my opinion - that you chose to use that Grinning-Emoticon to show that you were trying to be funny. You make a lot of jokes.

Actually, neonatal circumcision is quite common. Let's not derail this thread any further.
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:31 pm

rowboat wrote:....
Once again, as anyone can clearly see from the quotation, it's only this one instance that I've mentioned to be exluded from discussion. (And to preclude the next question; I only spoke of this in the first place in the remote hopes that an ordained individual might feel curious enough or interested to contact me directly in the future.


If I didn't suspect better, I would consider this to be 'attention-seeking'..... :thinking:

They seem completely disinterested.

I for one, am not. But then, one cannot even remotely, get blood out of a stone.
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Postby rowboat » Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:31 pm

Mkoll, there is no contradiction.
Rain soddens what is covered up,
It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it.
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Postby rowboat » Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:37 pm

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:
rowboat wrote:....
Once again, as anyone can clearly see from the quotation, it's only this one instance that I've mentioned to be exluded from discussion. (And to preclude the next question; I only spoke of this in the first place in the remote hopes that an ordained individual might feel curious enough or interested to contact me directly in the future.


If I didn't suspect better, I would consider this to be 'attention-seeking'..... :thinking:

They seem completely disinterested.

I for one, am not. But then, one cannot even remotely, get blood out of a stone.


Attention seeking. Ah, I see. There's nothing for you to gain from playing these games with me. I'm not susceptible. You are always welcome to ask any questions you like (with one topic as the exception). I'll try to be as forthcoming as I can.
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Postby Mr Man » Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:43 pm

rowboat wrote:
TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:
rowboat wrote:....
Once again, as anyone can clearly see from the quotation, it's only this one instance that I've mentioned to be exluded from discussion. (And to preclude the next question; I only spoke of this in the first place in the remote hopes that an ordained individual might feel curious enough or interested to contact me directly in the future.


If I didn't suspect better, I would consider this to be 'attention-seeking'..... :thinking:

They seem completely disinterested.

I for one, am not. But then, one cannot even remotely, get blood out of a stone.


Attention seeking. Ah, I see. There's nothing for you to gain from playing these games with me. I'm not susceptible. You are always welcome to ask any questions you like (with one topic as the exception). I'll try to be as forthcoming as I can.


Will you be posting "irrevocable and certain evidence"?
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Postby rowboat » Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:51 pm

Mr Man: Will you be posting "irrevocable and certain evidence"?


"I do personally have irrevocable and certain evidence of rebirth."
Rain soddens what is covered up,
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Therefore uncover what is covered
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Postby Mkoll » Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:54 pm

rowboat wrote:Mkoll, there is no contradiction.

There is one to me, personally, just as there is certain evidence for rebirth for you, personally. I'm happy to agree to disagree.

:smile:
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Postby Mr Man » Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:59 pm

rowboat wrote:
Mr Man: Will you be posting "irrevocable and certain evidence"?


"I do personally have irrevocable and certain evidence of rebirth."


Well why don't you share it? In your first post you were talking about "independent verification". I presumed that you personally had irrevocable and certain evidence. Possibly you don't.
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Postby rowboat » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:17 pm

Mr Man wrote:
rowboat wrote:
Mr Man: Will you be posting "irrevocable and certain evidence"?


"I do personally have irrevocable and certain evidence of rebirth."


Well why don't you share it? In your first post you were talking about "independent verification". I presumed that you personally had irrevocable and certain evidence. Possibly you don't.


OK, I would love to. But how can I do this? Is there perhaps some machine by which you can slip into my mind and witness the things that I witness? Or is that like throwing chains around a ghost? Perhaps you might consider, as SamKR realizes, naturally, that I am using the term 'evidence' other than the way that e.g. a scientist would.

SamKR:
For rowboat it is irrevocable and certain.


Mr Man:
In your first post you were talking about "independent verification". I presumed that you personally had irrevocable and certain evidence. Possibly you don't.


Yes, I am very keen to speak with a Tibetologist. I have very specific details about matters that occurred in that country. These events should have been recorded and are of a nature where it is unlikely that they are historically obscure. (Although, tragically, so much of Tibetan culture has been recently destroyed...)
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Postby Mr Man » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:40 pm

So the point is you do not have "irrevocable and certain evidence".
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Postby rowboat » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:45 pm

Mr Man wrote:So the point is you do not have "irrevocable and certain evidence".


No, I do personally have irrevocable and certain evidence of rebirth.
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:50 pm

rowboat wrote:
Mr Man wrote:Well why don't you share it? In your first post you were talking about "independent verification". I presumed that you personally had irrevocable and certain evidence. Possibly you don't.


OK, I would love to. But how can I do this? Is there perhaps some machine by which you can slip into my mind and witness the things that I witness? Or is that like throwing chains around a ghost? Perhaps you might consider, as SamKR realizes, naturally, that I am using the term 'evidence' other than the way that e.g. a scientist would.


You're not using it in the way any other person would, though.
Evidence is proof that can be unequivocally corroborated, of something happening.
All we can gather from this therefore, is that you happen to believe it to be true; you trust your own memory, but not in any way that you can demonstrably prove to others, is accurate.

I would refer you back to the link I provided, which SCIENTIFICALLY demonstrates that our memories are tricking us.

I would further direct you to this article, also.

Yes, I am very keen to speak with a Tibetologist. I have very specific details about matters that occurred in that country. These events should have been recorded and are of a nature where it is unlikely that they are historically obscure. (Although, tragically, so much of Tibetan culture has been recently destroyed...)


If it is "unlikely that they are historically obscure", then that you attribute these things to a memory of past lives is wholly questionable, as is illustrated by the link I have given you, above.
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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