Why is birth included in descriptions of dukkha?

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vinasp
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Re: Why is birth included in descriptions of dukkha?

Postby vinasp » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:28 pm

Hi Spiny,

Spiny said:-"...but isn't it the sankhara aggregate where the constructing goes on, as the name suggests? ...."

That is an important issue. My understanding is that all aggregates are sankhara's.

This is stated by Walpola Rahula in his "What the Buddha taught" page 57:

"The term sankhara denotes the five aggregates, ...." (see note 2).

Also, since contact is in the fourth aggregate (sankhara's), then if that ceases then feeling, perception and volition must also cease.

But what is required is to demonstrate this from sutta citations, I will try to find something.

Regards, Vincent.

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mikenz66
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Re: Why is birth included in descriptions of dukkha?

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:53 pm


vinasp
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Re: Why is birth included in descriptions of dukkha?

Postby vinasp » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:17 am

Hi Mike,

So, for you, 'aggregates' just means a fivefold classification, not the things which are being classified?

So any talk of 'the cessation of the five aggregates' makes no sense?

Instead, I should speak of the permanent cessation of form, feeling, perception, volitional formations and consciousness.

Regards, Vincent.

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mikenz66
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Re: Why is birth included in descriptions of dukkha?

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:49 am


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Spiny Norman
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Re: Why is birth included in descriptions of dukkha?

Postby Spiny Norman » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:23 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Ron-The-Elder
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Re: Why is birth included in descriptions of dukkha?

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:03 am

What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

vinasp
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Re: Why is birth included in descriptions of dukkha?

Postby vinasp » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:41 pm

Hi Spiny,

On sankhara's I found this passage:

"And why, bhikkhus, do you call them volitional formations? (sankhara)
'They construct the conditioned,' bhikkhus, therefore they are called volitional formations. And what is the conditioned that they construct?
They construct conditioned form as form, they construct conditioned feeling
as feeling, they construct conditioned perception as perception, they construct
conditioned volitional formations as volitional formations, they construct
conditioned consciousness as consciousness. 'They construct the conditioned,'
bhikkhus, therefore they are called volitional formations."
[BB, TCDB, part of SN 22.79]

This is not easy to understand.

Also posted on Spiny's new 'sankhara aggregate' thread.

Regards, Vincent.

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daverupa
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Re: Why is birth included in descriptions of dukkha?

Postby daverupa » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:42 pm


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Spiny Norman
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Re: Why is birth included in descriptions of dukkha?

Postby Spiny Norman » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:34 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

santa100
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Re: Why is birth included in descriptions of dukkha?

Postby santa100 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:49 pm


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Spiny Norman
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Re: Why is birth included in descriptions of dukkha?

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:57 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama


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