37.When this being is born in the mother’s womb, he is not born inside a blue or
red or white lotus, etc., but on the contrary, like a worm in rotting fish, rotting dough,
cesspools, etc., he is born in the belly in a position that is below the receptacle for
undigested food (stomach), above the receptacle for digested food (rectum), between
the belly-lining and the backbone, which is very cramped, quite dark, pervaded by
very fetid draughts redolent of various smells of ordure, and exception-ally
loathsome.11 And on being reborn there, for ten months he undergoes excessive
suffering, being cooked like a pudding in a bag by the heat produced in the mother’s
womb, and steamed like a dumpling of dough, with no bending, stretching, and so
on. So this, firstly, is the suffering rooted in the descent into the womb.
36. Herein, this birth is suffering because it is the basis for the suffering in the
states of loss as made evident by the Blessed One by means of a simile in the
Bálapaóðita Sutta (M III 165f.), etc., and for the suffering that arises in the happy
destinies in the human world and is classed as “rooted in the descent into the
womb,” and so on. 
Spiny Norman wrote:If we have no memory of being born, then why is it included in descriptions of dukkha?
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... ukkha.html
vinasp wrote: For the ordinary man "birth" is understood to mean rebirth, which he fears.
For the noble disciple "birth" is the birth or origination of self-view (atta-ditthi).
vinasp wrote: Every noble disciple clearly sees this process, and therefore sees "rebirth" occurring continuously. Stopping it is enlightenment.
Sam Vara wrote:One might pose the same question regarding death: why is it dukkha, given that I'm not experiencing it now? Depending on circumstances, one might ask the same of any other the things which are identified as being dukkha.
daverupa wrote:I am still wondering about this comment and possible discussion based thereon.
vinasp wrote:Spiny:-"What's being described here is a progression from mundane to noble right view, they're not mutually exclusive."
That is your interpretation.
vinasp wrote: My understanding is that "self" is continuously re-created, that is why it persists, and why it seems to be stable.
Users browsing this forum: mikenz66 and 9 guests