What exactly is equanimity?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
thepea
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Re: What exactly is equanimity?

Post by thepea »

barcsimalsi wrote:In the context of practicing equanimity, the recognition of stress/unsatisfactoriness must be present in the first place regardless of renunciation or householder equanimity.
I'm not sure you can practice equiminity any more than you can practice vipassana, you can simply be equanimous, or not, from one moment to the next. Being awareness and equanimous is the practice.
chownah
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Re: What exactly is equanimity?

Post by chownah »

thepea,
I think I understand what you are saying.....but do you think that one can through mindfulness encourage the arising of equanimity?.....and if so then this might qualify as "practicing" equanimity. Sort of like the word practice here does not mean like practicing the piano but rather it could mean developing as part of our practice.
chownah
thepea
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Re: What exactly is equanimity?

Post by thepea »

chownah wrote: but do you think that one can through mindfulness encourage the arising of equanimity?
I would say no, but I may be understanding "encourage" differently than you. I would say purity of mind is not dependent on anything.
SarathW
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Re: What exactly is equanimity?

Post by SarathW »

I would say that equanimity arises due to mindfulness.
When you are mindful you see things in terms of impermanence, stress and Anatta.
That help you to develop an attitude free from attachment and aversion but with wisdom.
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
chownah
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Re: What exactly is equanimity?

Post by chownah »

thepea,
What about this from the
SN 46.51 PTS: S v 102 CDB ii 1597 Ahara Sutta: Food (For the Factors for Awakening) translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu:

"And what is the food for the arising of unarisen equanimity as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of equanimity... once it has arisen? There are mental qualities that act as a foothold for equanimity as a factor for Awakening. To foster appropriate attention to them: This is the food for the arising of unarisen equanimity as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of equanimity as a factor for Awakening once it has arisen."

chownah
thepea
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Re: What exactly is equanimity?

Post by thepea »

Hi chownah,

Yes, equanimity and awareness are fruitions, but the fruit is always there, pristine and perfected. I would not say it arises as more we(reactive mind) unbinds/dissolves.

These perfected qualities(enlightened eternal canvas) are "within" each of us(impermanent creation) in tact, it does not seem appropriate to say we need to grow or develop them any further. Equanimity is perfect purity.
culaavuso
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Re: What exactly is equanimity?

Post by culaavuso »

thepea wrote: Yes, equanimity and awareness are fruitions, but the fruit is always there, pristine and perfected. I would not say it arises as more we(reactive mind) unbinds/dissolves.

These perfected qualities(enlightened eternal canvas) are "within" each of us(impermanent creation) in tact, it does not seem appropriate to say we need to grow or develop them any further. Equanimity is perfect purity.
It appears that the suttas say even equanimity is an intermediate stage of the path to be abandoned, that the path itself is fabricated, and that even the fourth jhāna which is characterized by equanimity is fabricated.
MN 137: Saḷāyatana­vibhaṅga Sutta wrote: By depending & relying on the six kinds of renunciation equanimity, abandon & transcend the six kinds of household equanimity. Such is their abandoning, such their transcending.
...
By depending & relying on equanimity coming from singleness, dependent on singleness, abandon & transcend equanimity coming from multiplicity, dependent on multiplicity. Such is its abandoning, such its transcending.
...
By depending & relying on non-fashioning, abandon & transcend the equanimity coming from singleness, dependent on singleness. Such is its abandoning, such its transcending.
MN 44: Cūḷavedalla Sutta wrote: "Is the noble eightfold path fabricated or unfabricated?"

"The noble eightfold path is fabricated."
MN 111: Anupada Sutta wrote: Sariputta entered & remained in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither-pleasure-nor-pain. Whatever qualities there are in the fourth jhana — a feeling of equanimity, neither pleasure nor pain; an unconcern due to serenity of awareness; singleness of mind, contact, feeling, perception, intention, consciousness, desire, decision, persistence, mindfulness, equanimity, & attention — he ferreted them out one after another.
...
He discerned that 'There is a further escape,' and pursuing it there really was for him.
...
Furthermore, with the complete transcending of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, Sariputta entered & remained in the cessation of feeling & perception.
MN 52: Aṭṭhakanāgara Sutta wrote: He reflects on this and discerns, 'This fourth jhana is fabricated & intended. Now whatever is fabricated & intended is inconstant & subject to cessation.'
thepea
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Re: What exactly is equanimity?

Post by thepea »

culaavuso wrote: It appears that the suttas say even equanimity is an intermediate stage of the path to be abandoned, that the path itself is fabricated, and that even the fourth jhāna which is characterized by equanimity is fabricated.
Are you suggesting equanimity is not a quality of mind in 5th Jhana and beyond?
chownah
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Re: What exactly is equanimity?

Post by chownah »

thepea wrote:Hi chownah,

Yes, equanimity and awareness are fruitions, but the fruit is always there, pristine and perfected. I would not say it arises as more we(reactive mind) unbinds/dissolves.

These perfected qualities(enlightened eternal canvas) are "within" each of us(impermanent creation) in tact, it does not seem appropriate to say we need to grow or develop them any further. Equanimity is perfect purity.
The last sentence of the sutta I presented says "This is the food for the arising of unarisen equanimity as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of equanimity as a factor for Awakening once it has arisen." Certainly says that equanimity can be unarisen and that there is 'food' which is for the arising of this unarisen equanimity. Seems what you are saying goes against this but your words are not clear and I'm not really clear on what you are saying. Can you restate it and perhaps present a sutta reference to support it?
Also, what is "enlightened eternal canvas"? Do you have a sutta reference for this.?
chownah
culaavuso
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Re: What exactly is equanimity?

Post by culaavuso »

thepea wrote:
culaavuso wrote: It appears that the suttas say even equanimity is an intermediate stage of the path to be abandoned, that the path itself is fabricated, and that even the fourth jhāna which is characterized by equanimity is fabricated.
Are you suggesting equanimity is not a quality of mind in 5th Jhana and beyond?
What is colloquially referred to as the "5th jhāna" is the perception attainment of infinite space. The suttas describe a further attainment known as the cessation of feeling & perception, and equanimity is described as one of the five feelings. This appears to be consistent with the statement that equanimity should be abandoned by depending on non-fashioning.
AN 9.36: Jhānanissaya Sutta wrote: Thus, as far as the perception-attainments go, that is as far as gnosis-penetration goes. As for these two dimensions — the attainment of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception & the attainment of the cessation of feeling & perception — I tell you that they are to be rightly explained by those monks who are meditators, skilled in attaining, skilled in attaining & emerging, who have attained & emerged in dependence on them.
SN 36.22: Aṭṭhasata­pariyāya Sutta wrote: And which are the five feelings? The pleasure-faculty, the pain-faculty, the happiness-faculty, the distress-faculty, the equanimity-faculty. These are the five feelings.
SN 48.38: Vibhaṅga Sutta wrote: And what is the equanimity-faculty? Anything, physical or mental, to be experienced as neither comfort nor discomfort. That is called the equanimity-faculty.

With regard to this, the pleasure-faculty & happiness-faculty are to be seen as a feeling of pleasure. The pain-faculty & distress-faculty are to be seen as a feeling of pain. The equanimity-faculty is to be seen as a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain. Thus, by this exposition, the five are three; and the three, five.
MN 137: Saḷāyatana­vibhaṅga Sutta wrote: By depending & relying on non-fashioning, abandon & transcend the equanimity coming from singleness, dependent on singleness. Such is its abandoning, such its transcending.
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Aloka
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Re: What exactly is equanimity?

Post by Aloka »

SarathW wrote: This seems silly but what exactly is equanimity?
This is from page 19 of "Broad View, Boundless Heart" by Ajahn Passano & Ajahn Amaro......

"Equanimity in Pali is called upekkha. It is characterized as that quality which brings about a sense of neutrality or an evenness of heart towards all beings. Its function is in maintaining a steadiness of mind and not allowing differences—whether physical, intellectual, spiritual, or whatever—to detract or influence our perception of those with whom
we come in contact. Its proximate cause is understanding the nature of karma—recognition that our actions bear results which affect us and, in effect, that we create our own future world or experiences.

Another factor to recognize regarding karma is that we are not able to take on the results of other’s actions and deeds. Equanimity is therefore understanding how the basic laws of nature work, the recognition that our lives are governed by the way we conduct our lives.Where the suffering of others is concerned, we recognize that by making ourselves suffer, we do not decrease or take away the suffering of others.We can work to alleviate another’s suffering or delight in another’s good fortune,but there is a point where one has to exercise equanimity, being aware of one’s own well being.To try to take on someone else’s life and carry it around is not equanimity. Equanimity is not taking on more than what is actually necessary or beneficial.

Equanimity succeeds when it is aware of the movement of the mind—the wanting and not wanting, approval and isapproval—and one is able to establish an evenness of mind, a clarity that sees things for what they are. Equanimity fails when it causes indifference, not caring. Indifference could arise due to a lack of attention or clarity, or to being unwilling to deal with a situation because too much effort is required. Indifference is the near enemy of equanimity.True equanimity does not
hinder compassion or action, but rather enhances it by developing the discernment that knows how and when to engage. The far enemy is aversion and greed: the liking and disliking, approving and disapproving that occurs within our minds.

Equanimity is the quality not shaken by the movement of the worldly dhammas or the ways of the world."

http://www.amaravati.org/downloads/pdf/Broad_View.pdf


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Viscid
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Re: What exactly is equanimity?

Post by Viscid »

culaavuso wrote:It appears that the suttas say even equanimity is an intermediate stage of the path to be abandoned, that the path itself is fabricated, and that even the fourth jhāna which is characterized by equanimity is fabricated.
[url=http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.137.than.html]MN 137[/url] wrote:By depending and relying on non-fashioning, abandon and transcend the equanimity coming from singleness, dependent on singleness. Such is its abandoning, such its transcending.
Makes sense. When you are no longer cognizing/fabricating division, equanimity is not possible, as there is no relation of objects to be equanimous toward. Such abandonment must be pretty damn close to the attainment of full enlightenment, though: very advanced.
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Mkoll
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Re: What exactly is equanimity?

Post by Mkoll »

Viscid wrote:
culaavuso wrote:It appears that the suttas say even equanimity is an intermediate stage of the path to be abandoned, that the path itself is fabricated, and that even the fourth jhāna which is characterized by equanimity is fabricated.
[url=http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.137.than.html]MN 137[/url] wrote:By depending and relying on non-fashioning, abandon and transcend the equanimity coming from singleness, dependent on singleness. Such is its abandoning, such its transcending.
Makes sense. When you are no longer cognizing/fabricating division, equanimity is not possible, as there is no relation of objects to be equanimous toward. Such abandonment must be pretty damn close to the attainment of full enlightenment, though: very advanced.
I agree: very advanced.

I'm going to do my best not to fall into the trap of forming and clinging to a view of having attained something when in fact I haven't. :thinking:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
SarathW
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Re: What exactly is equanimity?

Post by SarathW »

I have a question re: Equanimity in Brahama Viharas:
a)Is this household equanimity?
b)Can you experience this, outside meditation?
c)If it is not household or meditative which category it comes under?

:thinking:
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thepea
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Re: What exactly is equanimity?

Post by thepea »

chownah wrote: The last sentence of the sutta I presented says "This is the food for the arising of unarisen equanimity as a factor for Awakening, or for the growth & increase of equanimity as a factor for Awakening once it has arisen."
I understand what the sutta says, and I'm questioning whether equanimity arises or the reactive mind veiling this eternal quality simply dissolves. This would give the impression of equanimity arising(building in strength) but in reality this quality is always there in its full purity, we simply are not being this quality as we are busy identifying and reacting to mental formations.

Mr. Goenka classes equanimity as one of the four qualities of a pure mind. He often equates equanimity as purity, I do not come to understand this as partial levels of purity, you are either equanimous, or not, from one moment to the next, but I understand there are quite a few of these mind moments occurring every second, the trick seems to be to spend as many with perfect awareness and equanimity dissolving past sankharas, and less moments reacting and creating new sankharas.


chownah wrote:Seems what you are saying goes against this but your words are not clear and I'm not really clear on what you are saying.
Not really, but perhaps I'm coming at this from a different perspective.

chownah wrote:Can you restate it and perhaps present a sutta reference to support it?
Pasting sutta references is a bit above my pay-grade at this moment. But I do enjoy reading and discussing the ones you all post.

chownah wrote:Also, what is "enlightened eternal canvas"?
The enlightened one, or Buddha.
chownah wrote:Do you have a sutta reference for this.?
No.
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