assada adinava and nissarana

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Upasaka Sumana
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assada adinava and nissarana

Postby Upasaka Sumana » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:19 pm

assada (enjoyment), adinava (danger) and nissarana (escape) - what is the collective name for these concepts?

In case you don't understand what I'm asking: just as anicca, dukkha and anatta are called the "three marks of existence", how are assada adinava and nissarana called?
:thanks:
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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Postby kc2dpt » Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:36 pm

I don't know. :shrug:
- Peter

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imagemarie
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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Postby imagemarie » Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:09 pm

enjoyment - attraction - liking
danger - aversion - disliking
escape - neither attraction or aversion - neutrality

therefore vedana?
Stretching it a bit, perhaps :tongue:

:anjali:

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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Postby Fede » Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:21 pm

Does there have to be a collective name, or are you merely asking someone to propose a possible name?
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Postby Upasaka Sumana » Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:32 pm

Fede wrote:Does there have to be a collective name, or are you merely asking someone to propose a possible name?

I want to put these three (assada adinava and nissarana) in the Outline but don't know how the title/heading should be called. I am asking what the name is, not create a new one.
My motto, philosophy, and guiding principle: You should do what’s good, Stephen. You should do what’s good. Always choose whatever is good.

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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:04 pm

Greetings Stefan,

I've not heard of a collective term for these.

Perhaps you could align them with one of the vipassana nanas? Not sure, just an idea that came to mind.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"When we transcend one level of truth, the new level becomes what is true for us. The previous one is now false. What one experiences may not be what is experienced by the world in general, but that may well be truer. (Ven. Nanananda)

“I hope, Anuruddha, that you are all living in concord, with mutual appreciation, without disputing, blending like milk and water, viewing each other with kindly eyes.” (MN 31)

Never again...

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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Postby David N. Snyder » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:46 pm

My first check was with Maha Thera Nyanatiloka's Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines, Buddhist Publication Society, and then google.

No luck with either one.

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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Postby kc2dpt » Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:36 am

Gosh, it's kinda interesting that this doesn't appear to have a name. :o
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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:05 am

Stefan wrote:assada (enjoyment), adinava (danger) and nissarana (escape) - what is the collective name for these concepts?

In case you don't understand what I'm asking: just as anicca, dukkha and anatta are called the "three marks of existence", how are assada adinava and nissarana called?
:thanks:



Where did you find these terms?
.


++++++++++++++++
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam
Damned if I know.

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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:35 am

Hi Tilt,
tiltbillings wrote:Where did you find these terms?

I think he is referring to passages like this:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nypo.html
He does not know, according to facts, the arising and ending of these feelings, nor the gratification, the danger and the escape, connected with these feelings.

Mike

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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Postby Upasaka Sumana » Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:47 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Stefan wrote:assada (enjoyment), adinava (danger) and nissarana (escape) - what is the collective name for these concepts?

In case you don't understand what I'm asking: just as anicca, dukkha and anatta are called the "three marks of existence", how are assada adinava and nissarana called?
:thanks:



Where did you find these terms?

http://www.londonbuddhistvihara.org/lec ... /WEEK2.HTM
&
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/buddhism/page4.htm
My motto, philosophy, and guiding principle: You should do what’s good, Stephen. You should do what’s good. Always choose whatever is good.

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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Postby Upasaka Sumana » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:57 pm

I took the term "standpoints" from here. Does the "Three Standpoints" sound OK?
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tiltbillings
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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:11 pm

Stefan wrote:I took the term "standpoints" from here. Does the "Three Standpoints" sound OK?


Depends upon what you are trying to do. The "Three Standpoints" is not a traditional category. If you are cataloguing traditional categories, this is not one, but there is nothing to say that you cannot add to the traditional categories, drawing from the suttas, if you are not limiting yourself solely to what the tradition has listed.
.


++++++++++++++++
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam
Damned if I know.

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kc2dpt
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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Postby kc2dpt » Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:17 pm

I think Stefan's point is that "gratification, danger, and escape" is a traditional formula, but one apparently without a name. Does the Buddha ever use the term "three characteristics" or "three marks" or was that a name someone at a later time gave to the traditional formula of "anicca, dukkha, anatta"?
- Peter

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tiltbillings
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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:31 pm

Peter wrote:I think Stefan's point is that "gratification, danger, and escape" is a traditional formula, but one apparently without a name. Does the Buddha ever use the term "three characteristics" or "three marks" or was that a name someone at a later time gave to the traditional formula of "anicca, dukkha, anatta"?


Picky, picky, picky, picky. It is not a traditional listing that has been teased out of the texts and named by the tradition. Just for Stefan's own edification, it might worth doing a search of the canon to see how often those words are used together. There is nothing wrong with him adding these three words together as part of his catalogue and giving them a name. It all depends upon what he trying to do.
.


++++++++++++++++
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam
Damned if I know.

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kc2dpt
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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Postby kc2dpt » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:17 pm

tiltbillings wrote:It is not a traditional listing that has been teased out of the texts and named by the tradition.

That does appear to be the case, as curious as that is. If it is indeed the case then an interesting next question might be "Why? Is there some significance to the fact that this listing hasn't been deemed name-worthy?"

Just for Stefan's own edification, it might worth doing a search of the canon to see how often those words are used together.

Informmaly, I feel like I've seen this grouping a bunch of times. Hence why I thought it odd they didn't have a name. Maybe there's something in the Visudhimagga?
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.

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tiltbillings
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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:53 pm

A very quick - not thorough - run through the suttas finds these three word used together as few as three times in the Samyutta Nikaya. There may be more, but I don't have time to look as carefully as is really needed. But if these words are used so little together, that would explain why they are seen as a doctrinal grouping with a name of their own.
.


++++++++++++++++
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam
Damned if I know.

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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:58 pm

Greetings Stefan,

Stefan wrote:I took the term "standpoints" from here. Does the "Three Standpoints" sound OK?


Looking at the reference provided, I agree with the commentators that these "three standpoints" may be tied back to the Four Noble Truths. (see that reference for more information... it won't let me copy and paste here)

Perhaps you could treat them as an alternative rendering of the 4NT?

Calling them "three standpoints" alone doesn't seem at all intuitive to me, since awareness and recognition of the true nature of these things seems wise, whereas "standpoints" has ignorant connotations in the suttas. For example...

SN 1.20: Samiddhi Sutta
http://www.vipassana.com/canon/samyutta/sn1-20.php

Perceiving in terms of signs, beings
take a stand on signs.
Not fully comprehending signs, they
come into the bonds
of death.
But fully comprehending signs, one
doesn't construe
a signifier.
Yet nothing exists for him
by which one would say,
'To him no thought occurs.'

Metta,
Retro. :)
"When we transcend one level of truth, the new level becomes what is true for us. The previous one is now false. What one experiences may not be what is experienced by the world in general, but that may well be truer. (Ven. Nanananda)

“I hope, Anuruddha, that you are all living in concord, with mutual appreciation, without disputing, blending like milk and water, viewing each other with kindly eyes.” (MN 31)

Never again...

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kc2dpt
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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Postby kc2dpt » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:34 am

Some I found:

MN 11
SN 36.15
SN 36.6
AN 3.101
AN 3.102

There's a section on this in Bodhi's "In the Buddha's Words".
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.

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tiltbillings
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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:34 am

Peter wrote:Some I found:

MN 11


Discourse 11? PTS reference?

There's a section on this in Bodhi's "In the Buddha's Words".



Page?
.


++++++++++++++++
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam
Damned if I know.


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