FNT and NEP enough?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Sumano
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FNT and NEP enough?

Postby Sumano » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:26 pm

Just a quick question.

Are the Four Noble Truths and Noble Eightfold Path enough for englightenment?

In other words, are other teachings, such as, for example, the brahmaviharas, or the 10 parami, indispensable for the attainment the final goal?

If one only follows the FNT and NEP, would that be enough?

:thanks: :namaste:
I am on the path, however not yet advanced. Any opinions or insights I share are meant entirely for discussion purposes and in cases where people might find them beneficial in whatever way. Since I am not advanced on the Path, I cannot guarantee that what I say will always necessarily be 100% true or in line with the Dhamma. However, having had an extremely interesting life with a wide variety of different (many of them deep) experiences, I hope that anything I share will be of use, provide food for thought, and inspire interesting and beneficial discussions.

Mettā to all! :anjali:

PeterB
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Re: FNT and NEP enough?

Postby PeterB » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:49 pm

I am sure they are enough Stefan. If you allow a pictorial metaphor, its like the Third Noble Truth opens out into Eightfold Path, and from another angle into the Brahma Viharas. In turn the Paramis overlap with the Brahma Viharas, no's eight and nine ( ? ) of the paramis are not different from two of the Brahma Viharas. They are I think different aspects of the same thing with a slightly different emphasis here and there . So yes , they give all of philosophical underpinning that we need to inform our anapanasati and Brahma Vihara practice.

:anjali:

P.

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Jechbi
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Re: FNT and NEP enough?

Postby Jechbi » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:54 pm

Stefan wrote:If one only follows the FNT and NEP, would that be enough?
My opinion: It would be enough for those other things to surely follow. These all go together, like a flower goes with it stem and roots.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.

PeterB
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Re: FNT and NEP enough?

Postby PeterB » Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:08 pm

Good analogy Jechbi.

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Sumano
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Re: FNT and NEP enough?

Postby Sumano » Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:25 pm

I mean, as beneficial as the various practices are, are all of them indispensable? The Fouth Truth states only the NEP as the means for attaining Nibbana, it doesn't mention other practices. Yet the Blessed One taught many other practices; are these indespensable?
I am on the path, however not yet advanced. Any opinions or insights I share are meant entirely for discussion purposes and in cases where people might find them beneficial in whatever way. Since I am not advanced on the Path, I cannot guarantee that what I say will always necessarily be 100% true or in line with the Dhamma. However, having had an extremely interesting life with a wide variety of different (many of them deep) experiences, I hope that anything I share will be of use, provide food for thought, and inspire interesting and beneficial discussions.

Mettā to all! :anjali:

PeterB
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: FNT and NEP enough?

Postby PeterB » Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:38 pm

It seems to me Stefan that the other practices are included in Samma-Samadhi and Samma-Sati.

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pink_trike
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Re: FNT and NEP enough?

Postby pink_trike » Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:41 pm

Imo, the whole thing is right there in the FNT and 8FP. Everything else is additional commentary and aids to recognizing what is clearly spelled out in the FNT and 8FP.

The FNT and 8FP are profoundly simple...but they are also deep and alive. The more we take them to heart the more they reveal, ultimately revealing all.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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cooran
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Re: FNT and NEP enough?

Postby cooran » Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:26 pm

Hello Stefan and all,

Bhante Henepola Gunaratana says, regarding the Brahma Viharas:

"They are so important in the practice of Vipassana meditation that they are included in the second step of the Noble Eightfold Path. In fact, no concentration is possible without these sublime states of mind because in their absence the mind would be filled with hatred, rigidity, worry, fear, tension and restlessness."
Article here:
http://www.bhavanasociety.org/main/reso ... ess_metta/

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Cittasanto
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Re: FNT and NEP enough?

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:08 pm

All teachings are aspects of the FNT including the NEP
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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retrofuturist
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Re: FNT and NEP enough?

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:31 pm

Greetings,

pink_trike wrote:Imo, the whole thing is right there in the FNT and 8FP. Everything else is additional commentary and aids to recognizing what is clearly spelled out in the FNT and 8FP.

The FNT and 8FP are profoundly simple...but they are also deep and alive. The more we take them to heart the more they reveal, ultimately revealing all.


:goodpost:

As Chris pointed out, just because brahma-viharas (and other teachings for that matter) are not explicitly referenced in 4NT or 8NP, they are certainly part of it.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

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BlackBird
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Re: FNT and NEP enough?

Postby BlackBird » Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:58 pm

Manapa wrote:All teachings are aspects of the FNT including the NEP


:anjali:
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta


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