Why isn't the Visuddhimagga free?

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Re: Why isn't the Visuddhimagga free?

Postby Dmytro » Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:55 am

Hello,

There's a free Visuddhimagga translation at:

The path of purity;
being a translation of Buddhaghosa's Visuddhimagga by Pe Maung Tin
([1922])

http://www.archive.org/details/pathofpu ... 01budduoft

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Re: Why isn't the Visuddhimagga free?

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:30 am

Thanks Dmytro,
Dmytro wrote:There's a free Visuddhimagga translation at:...


But only the first volume... :cry:

http://www.palitext.com/
The Path of Purity,
tr. Pe Maung Tin, 3 volumes, 1923, 1929, 1931, reprinted as one
volume 1975
ISBN 008 8 £45.30 « Add to Basket »
One of the most influential Pāli texts, this compendium of Buddhist doctrine and metaphysics is the most important book written by Buddhaghosa. It provides a systematic exposition of Buddhist teaching and is also a detailed manual for meditation. (5th century C.E.)
Translation of Visuddhimagga.


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Re: Why isn't the Visuddhimagga free?

Postby Individual » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:18 pm

mikenz66 wrote:Thanks Dmytro,
Dmytro wrote:There's a free Visuddhimagga translation at:...


But only the first volume... :cry:

http://www.palitext.com/
The Path of Purity,
tr. Pe Maung Tin, 3 volumes, 1923, 1929, 1931, reprinted as one
volume 1975

1923-31? Are the original translators of that work even still alive?
The best things in life aren't things.

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Re: Why isn't the Visuddhimagga free?

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:50 pm

Individual wrote:1923-31? Are the original translators of that work even still alive?

Presumably not, which I guess is why it says:
Possible copyright status: NOT_IN_COPYRIGHT

I'm not up on all the copyright laws but presumably since Venerable Ñanamoli died in 1960 his translation of the Visuddhimagga, and his various other works, will be out of Copyright some time soon (50 years: 2010?). At least the versions printed back in the 1950s... Perhaps that is why BPS is planning a free PDF version soon...

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Re: Why isn't the Visuddhimagga free?

Postby Individual » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:17 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
Individual wrote:1923-31? Are the original translators of that work even still alive?

Presumably not, which I guess is why it says:
Possible copyright status: NOT_IN_COPYRIGHT

I'm not up on all the copyright laws but presumably since Venerable Ñanamoli died in 1960 his translation of the Visuddhimagga, and his various other works, will be out of Copyright some time soon (50 years: 2010?). At least the versions printed back in the 1950s... Perhaps that is why BPS is planning a free PDF version soon...

Mike

But what about Pe Maung Tin's translation? There's apparently a public domain translation out there somewhere, but it's out of print, and people with paperback copies simply aren't scanning it?

I bet somebody at the PTS has a copy.
The best things in life aren't things.

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Re: Why isn't the Visuddhimagga free?

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:39 pm

Individual wrote:But what about Pe Maung Tin's translation?

Presumably it's all out of copyright. Why don't you go to your library, request to interloan the second and third volumes, scan them, and put them on a web site?

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Re: Why isn't the Visuddhimagga free?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:02 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Individual wrote:But what about Pe Maung Tin's translation?

Presumably it's all out of copyright. Why don't you go to your library, request to interloan the second and third volumes, scan them, and put them on a web site?

Mike


Making the book free on the web would take money away from further PTS projects, so better that he buys a copy from the PTS, so that the PTS at least can get some support for having produced the book.
The Path of Purity,
tr. Pe Maung Tin, 3 volumes, 1923, 1929, 1931, reprinted as one
volume 1975
ISBN 008 8 £45.30 « Add to Basket »
One of the most influential Pāli texts, this compendium of Buddhist doctrine and metaphysics is the most important book written by Buddhaghosa. It provides a systematic exposition of Buddhist teaching and is also a detailed manual for meditation. (5th century C.E.)
http://www.palitext.com/palitext/tran.htm#tt34
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Why isn't the Visuddhimagga free?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:05 am

Greetings Tilt,

tiltbillings wrote:Better that he buys a copy from the PTS, so that the PTS can get some support for having produced the book.


Assuming of course he can afford to. PTS publications aren't the cheapest going around. Nor are they, as you point out, necessarily the best translations despite the premium prices charged.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Why isn't the Visuddhimagga free?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:14 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Tilt,

tiltbillings wrote:Better that he buys a copy from the PTS, so that the PTS can get some support for having produced the book.


Assuming of course he can afford to. PTS publications aren't the cheapest going around. Nor are they, as you point out, necessarily the best translations despite the premium prices charged.

Metta,
Retro. :)


The money does not go into PTS' pockets. It gets turned around for further projects. Also, the quality of the their printing is quite good. Copying this book and making it free to everyone without working through the the PTS is theft, depriving the PTS of being able to support further projects, which then deprives us from further good quality translations and critical editions of the Pali texts. That's the way to make the Dhamma available to everyone.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Why isn't the Visuddhimagga free?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:18 am

http://www.palitext.com/
Sponsor a book

In the past, many people have made donations in the name of family or friends to help with the printing costs of new books and reprints. We would like to encourage members and others to continue this tradition. The name of the person in whose memory the donation is made will be included in the book. In addition to being a fitting memorial, donations of this type will help further the aims of the Society and keep prices as low as possible.

There is no minimum or maximum set for donations towards printing books, any amount will be acknowledged.


The donor can specify a book that he / she wishes to sponsor, though it should be noted that some books sell more quickly than others and donors may have to wait long if a slow selling book is chosen which we still have in stock.


If no book is being specified, the donation will be used for the publication that is being printed / reprinted next.


The acknowledgement lasts for one print / reprint only, which usually produces 150 to 200 copies of one publication. The cost of one such print run is around £ 2,000.


The acknowledgement will read "The printing of this book was made possible by the generous donation of [name of person]". Acknowledgements "in memory of" can also be made.


For instructions on how to pay please see above. Our contact details can be found here.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Why isn't the Visuddhimagga free?

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:21 am

Hi Tilt,

I'm not a copyright expert, but I suggested finding an old copy because I'm not sure if it is legal to copy the latest PTS version, even if the original copyright has expired, since it would have new typesetting, etc.

And what if the author transferred the copyright to PTS? Would copying an old copy still be legal?

Issues like this come up with CDs of old recordings. The old recording may be out of copyright, but the new CD is copyright (as I thought I understood it...).

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Re: Why isn't the Visuddhimagga free?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:34 am

mikenz66 wrote:Hi Tilt,

I'm not a copyright expert, but I suggested finding an old copy because I'm not sure if it is legal to copy the latest PTS version, even if the original copyright has expired, since it would have new typesetting, etc.

And what if the author transferred the copyright to PTS? Would copying an old copy still be legal?

Issues like this come up with CDs of old recordings. The old recording may be out of copyright, but the new CD is copyright (as I thought I understood it...).

Mike


Equating what is legal with what is moral is not always a one-to-one.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Why isn't the Visuddhimagga free?

Postby Individual » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:48 am

tiltbillings wrote:
mikenz66 wrote:
Individual wrote:But what about Pe Maung Tin's translation?

Presumably it's all out of copyright. Why don't you go to your library, request to interloan the second and third volumes, scan them, and put them on a web site?

Mike


Making the book free on the web would take money away from further PTS projects

That doesn't seem to be very important if Pe Maung Tin's translation falls out of print, isn't scanned, and then ceases to exist entirely.
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra
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Re: Why isn't the Visuddhimagga free?

Postby Individual » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:50 am

tiltbillings wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Tilt,

tiltbillings wrote:Better that he buys a copy from the PTS, so that the PTS can get some support for having produced the book.


Assuming of course he can afford to. PTS publications aren't the cheapest going around. Nor are they, as you point out, necessarily the best translations despite the premium prices charged.

Metta,
Retro. :)


The money does not go into PTS' pockets. It gets turned around for further projects. Also, the quality of the their printing is quite good. Copying this book and making it free to everyone without working through the the PTS is theft, depriving the PTS of being able to support further projects, which then deprives us from further good quality translations and critical editions of the Pali texts. That's the way to make the Dhamma available to everyone.

Tiltbillings, I asked this question earlier in the thread but I'd like to ask it again: Do you think that a freely available Tipitaka or other Buddhist texts would be beneficial? Do you think it will ever happen?
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra
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Re: Why isn't the Visuddhimagga free?

Postby Individual » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:53 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Individual wrote:But what about Pe Maung Tin's translation?

Presumably it's all out of copyright. Why don't you go to your library, request to interloan the second and third volumes, scan them, and put them on a web site?

Mike

I doubt I could find it at MY local library. Of the allegedly "easily accessible" Tipitaka, all they have is the Majjhima Nikaya. Maybe they could request it from another library... Did PTS ever deliver a copy to the library of congress? Do they deliver copies of their work to the library of congress right now?
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra
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Re: Why isn't the Visuddhimagga free?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:56 am

Individual wrote:Tiltbillings, I asked this question earlier in the thread but I'd like to ask it again: Do you think that a freely available Tipitaka or other Buddhist texts would be beneficial? Do you think it will ever happen?


It would be good, but who is going to pay for it?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Why isn't the Visuddhimagga free?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:00 am

Greetings,

tiltbillings wrote:
Individual wrote:Tiltbillings, I asked this question earlier in the thread but I'd like to ask it again: Do you think that a freely available Tipitaka or other Buddhist texts would be beneficial? Do you think it will ever happen?


It would be good, but who is going to pay for it?


Wouldn't it simply be the same kind of model that gets Dhamma onto the Internet presently through sites like Access To Insight and Buddhanet?

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
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Re: Why isn't the Visuddhimagga free?

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:03 am

Individual wrote:I doubt I could find it at MY local library.

Yes but you can ask to Interloan it...

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Re: Why isn't the Visuddhimagga free?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:05 am

Somebody is willing to pay for it, both in time and money. Who supports Ven Thanissaro? Without that support he could not do his okay translations and Access to Insight would be very thin, indeed.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Why isn't the Visuddhimagga free?

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:07 am

Actaully, according to Library of Congress

http://catalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebreco ... 100&HIST=1
Pe Maung Tin is 1888-1973

They have his 1975 edition
http://catalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebreco ... 0420&SID=1

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