Buddhism and smoking, what's your thoughts?

[daverupa]

there happens to be some pretty compelling studies for nicotine being good for mental health.

Not exactly true, unfortunately, and that's without addressing the fact that smoking tobacco is often only part of what people are smoking when they smoke tobacco products.

The thing is, the incidence of smoking among schizophrenic, depressed, and anxiety disorder populations is very much higher than the population average, so while using nicotine as a form of self-medication is often a strong motivator (to say nothing of the usual addictive pathways) it offers only short-term benefits at the cost of long-term health degeneration, mental and physical.

[lyndon taylor]

There was a study done by the AMA in a mental institution where they concluded that nicotine functioned as "a potent anti psychotic medication" so there are very good reasons why so much higher percentage of mentally ill people smoke, the study concluded that the cigarettes had about the same strong anti psychotic effect as the prescribed anti psychotic medications. In other words if you force a schizophrenic to quit smoking their symptoms may well get worse or they will need higher doses of anti psychotic meds, I'll try to find a link to the study.

[lyndon taylor]

Here's a good link that covers both the good and bad things nicotine and cigarettes can do to mentally ill person's health. Right now its very PC to just throw the baby out with the bathwater and say everything about nicotine and cigarettes is bad, in much the same way professionals used to talk about marijuana being all bad.

http://www.schizophrenia.com/smokereport.htm#

[suttametta]

Then there should be a way to consume nicotine that leaves out all the carcinogens.

[lyndon taylor]

There are sources for just nicotine, the patch, the gum (although thats synthetic nicotine polacrylax) and even the e cigarette, nicotine itself is mildly carcinogenic but no where near as much as other ingredients in cigarette smoke. They are even trying to develop nicotine pills for the mentally ill.

However I am very suspicious of the e cigarettes because the nicotine is dissolved in propyline glycol, which I think is used as anti freeze, no one has any idea how bad it is for health, as an inhaled vapour its untested and may be worse than cigarettes, only time will tell.

[daverupa]

Here's a good link that covers both the good and bad things nicotine and cigarettes can do to mentally ill person's health. Right now its very PC to just throw the baby out with the bathwater and say everything about nicotine and cigarettes is bad, in much the same way professionals used to talk about marijuana being all bad.

http://www.schizophrenia.com/smokereport.htm#

Thank you. From the link:

There is no such thing as a completely "safe" or "harmless" level of tobacco or nicotine consumption.

Indeed, there was one report, again from that site, which suggested that nicotine may negatively impact the levels of antipsychotics often prescribed to schizophrenia patients.

Nicotine may have some medical uses, but the article goes over the severe dangers and recommends that, in consultation with medical professionals, even those who experience some benefit from nicotine begin moving towards medical dosing methods and controls, if not away from nicotine altogether.

So, consult with medical professionals as needed; the choice to use nicotine is simply not a good one. There are better medicines that do not come with a similarly disastrous side effect profile.

[lyndon taylor]

Obviously you left out the positive things they said about nicotine in the link, really its up to the individual, if they really wanted to help people they'd be focused on less dangerous ways to imbibe nicotine rather than calling for complete abstinence, have they ever done a patient satisfaction survey for patients while smoking vs after they quit, many of the studies focus on how much easier it is for the careproviders not to have to worry about supplying cigarettes etc. Obviously cigarettes, pot, alcohol, drugs all these things ideally would not be used in an ideal world, but one of the things the Buddha taught us is we don't live in an ideal world, personally I chose to give up drugs and alcohol, not cigarettes or caffeine, other people have made different choices, when we start to make choices for other people than ourselves is when we start to overstep our authority.

From the article;However research has shown that the relationship between smoking and schizophrenia is complex - it appears that there are both positive and negative effects of nicotine on a person who has schizophrenia and on the development of schizophrenia. The research is not entirely conclusive on this topic, but generally the research supports the idea that seem to be some psychological benefits that people with schizophrenia sometimes gain by smoking (or more specifically from nicotine)- and that is why the smoking rate is much higher than in normal populations.

[lyndon taylor]

I want to sincerely apologize if it seems like I am coming across as pro smoking, pro choice maybe but not pro smoking. I wouldn't reccomend anyone start it. However having manic depression in remission now for several years, I have had a lot of experiences living with and being around mentally ill persons of all diagnoses. 20 years ago 90% of these people smoked, now its maybe 70%, a non smoker has no idea of how important cigarettes are to these poor persons, they have next to nothing to live for, hardly any possessions, a room to share, cheap cafeteria food or 99c store diet. To these people a cigarette is one of the few luxuries they have that make them feel better not worse about their condition, and the doctors want to take that away from them and give them more mind f'ing prescriptions, something they don't enjoy at all.

Its sort of like my homeless alcoholic friend with throat cancer, he hardly smokes at all, but his luxury is 4 loco alcohol, am I against drinking, yes, but I have no trouble giving him money for alcohol, because he has nothing else to live for.

Back to the mentally ill, unless you are or have been mentally ill, you can not possibly understand what cigarettes do or don't mean to them, that cigarettes might not mean to you. But maybe this would be an analogy, telling a mentally ill person to give up their cigarettes might be the same as telling you not to use any pain killers for your severe back pain, when in fact both decisions should be up to the individual.

[SarathW]

Hi Lyndon
I was moved reading your post.
I was a smoker for a very short period and gave it up about 25 years ago.
I know how addictive it is.
There may be some benefits but my instinct is that cost is higher than the benefit.
Don’t you think it is a hindrance to meditation as well.

[lyndon taylor]

Thank you Sarath, and yes I think smoking could adversely effect meditation, especially if one was jonesing for a cigarette in the middle of a meditation, however I don't think it would be anywhere near as bad as being high on pot or alcohol and meditating.

My personal take on Buddhism and the 5th precept is we should make every attempt to be sober and use the full potential of our mind without the crutches of intoxicants, but obviously intoxicants come in several levels, not only by drug, but by amount of such drug, so if I where to venture a chart of really bad to not as bad, something like this;

No hard drugs(heroin, speed, LSD, etc) then no moderate drugs (alcohol, pot, valium types, etc) then if you can no cigarettes, then no coffee, tea, and finally no dietary excess of sugar perhaps even. IMHO if you are going to try to eliminate intoxicants, start at the beginning of this list and work your way down!!

If you are a recovering heroin addict Buddhist that doesn't drink but smokes pot, well thats a lot better than being a buddhist heroin addict, on the other hand if you've never drank or done drugs in your life, it wouldn't hurt not to smoke or drink caffeine either.

A mainstream Therevada position(not Mahayana) is that smoking is not a break of the precepts, but not that good of an idea either, a couple monks smoked at the temple I ordained at, however the Tibetan Mahayana position, having been less exposed to smoking was much stricter against tobacco.

Once again its up to the individual, the least amount of intoxicants you can possibly do seems like the best idea to me, and if you have to do any intoxicants stick to the weaker ones and don't do much of them, does that make any sense???

[Mkoll]

Lyndon,

I agree with you about harm reduction and that it's a good idea not to even get started. I appreciate your post on those people for whom a cigarette is most of what they have to look forward to. I live right next to an area with lots of homeless and mentally ill people on the streets. Thanks for pointing it out as I hadn't really thought of it like that before and it arouses compassion and empathy in my mind.

[SarathW]

I am addicted to caffeine (tea) and sugar.
I never considered that to be a drug. Ha,Ha
I think they all depend on the vantage point of the observer.

[lyndon taylor]

Thanks James, giving that homeless person a cigarette can spread some metta, more than giving them a dollar to buy booze!!

Sarath, that's the point, caffeine is a stimulant drug that effects you about as much as smoking cigarettes, which is not much, its not at all hard to have a totally clear head on either coffee or cigarettes, the same can not be said for pot or alcohol IMHO

Which is not to say that smoking, drinking coffee, or eating lots of sugar can not be accompanied by intense craving when we don't have it.

[ccook70]

Hello,

I use an electronic cigarette. Would this count as a form of sensual craving to be avoided?

Thanks,

Corey

[Babadhari]

hi corey
its not as harmful as smoking tobacco but ask yourself what benefit it is of to you? is it skilful or wholesome?