The right Right View

[mikenz66]

It seems to me that a sub-question that keeps emerging on this thread is:

• Do the Suttas, with no elaboration from either ancient or modern teachers, give sufficient information to establish right view, and the rest of the Path?

It's somewhat of an academic question, since I doubt that it's possible to find anyone who started reading the suttas with no commentary at all. I.e. no instruction from a teacher, no reading the introductions and footnotes, no reading suggestions of which suttas to start with, so on...


Mike

[Alex123]

It seems to me that a sub-question that keeps emerging on this thread is:

• Do the Suttas, with no elaboration from either ancient or modern teachers, give sufficient information to establish right view, and the rest of the Path?

Yes, for those with enough wisdom.

IMHO, if one truly believes that:

• *tanha leads to dukkha, and
  if tanha is quenched, dukkha fades.

or even more briefly:

• "quench all tanha!"

That is right view.


*tanha includes craving/attachment for theories, self, Self views. This is difference between Dhamma and non-Dhamma.

[mikenz66]

And how do you know that this will put you on the right track? Just a hunch?


Mike

[SarathW]

Hi Alex
I agree with you in principal but not in practice.
Do you know any Arahant in todays world?
If I know at least one Arahant, it is going to be a complete new ball game for me.
Perhaps I will become a monk today.

[tiltbillings]

I do not understand your question.

What is the proper context?

----

As I understand it, most teachers teach a strict method which doesn't advise to read books, or to actively think about Dhamma.

Are you talking about during retreats, or in general? And what do these guys have to do with what we are talking about?: Patanjali as commented by Swami Vivekenanda

[Alex123]

And how do you know that this will put you on the right track? Just a hunch?


Mike

Confidence in the suttas + I see value in removal of all tanha.


Call it what you will, but I believe that.

[Alex123]

I do not understand your question.

What is the proper context?

----

As I understand it, most teachers teach a strict method which doesn't advise to read books, or to actively think about Dhamma.

Are you talking about during retreats, or in general? And what do these guys have to do with what we are talking about?: Patanjali as commented by Swami Vivekenanda

I had in mind at least one non-Buddhist tradition based on Samadhi and jhana (dhyana in Sanskrit).

Even in Buddhist methods, on retreats, one is discouraged from reading or contemplating Dhamma. Just do this, this and that.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

Confidence in the suttas + I see value in removal of all tanha.

Call it what you will, but I believe that.

I call it saddha.

Well spoken, Alex.



Metta,
Retro.

[Alex123]

Hi Alex
Do you know any Arahant in todays world?

How could I or you possibly know that?

[tiltbillings]

----

As I understand it, most teachers teach a strict method which doesn't advise to read books, or to actively think about Dhamma.

Are you talking about during retreats, or in general? And what do these guys have to do with what we are talking about?: Patanjali as commented by Swami Vivekenanda

I had in mind at least one non-Buddhist tradition based on Samadhi and jhana (dhyana in Sanskrit).

Okay, and they have not a thing to do with what I or Mike were talking about.

Even in Buddhist methods, on retreats, one is discouraged from reading or contemplating Dhamma. Just do this, this and that.

Given the point of a retreat is to cut back on distractions and over-active thinking, for that short period not reading a book is probably not a bad thing. During the retreat, as I already said, there is Dhamma interwoven into the meditation instruction, and certainly Dhamma is the focus of the evening Dhamma talk (following the IMS model), and certainly Dhamma/practice is the focus of the question and answer sessions. Obviously one is going to think about Dhamma when not doing formal meditation, and one also doing a formal and informal meditation practice that is focused on Dhamma.

Also, there are study retreats, where reading suttas can be part of one's practice as is meditation.

[tiltbillings]

And how do you know that this will put you on the right track? Just a hunch?


Mike

Confidence in the suttas + I see value in removal of all tanha.


Call it what you will, but I believe that.

But how do you really know that your Right View is the right Right View?

[Alex123]

But how do you really know that your Right View is the right Right View?

I believe and see its benefits. Even if it "was not taught", this is my belief that it is worthwhile goal.


Also it is very frequently taught in the suttas in one way or another. 4NT is expanded version of it, and so is Dependent Origination.

[Alex123]

Given the point of a retreat is to cut back on distractions and over-active thinking, for that short period not reading a book is probably not a bad thing. During the retreat, as I already said, there is Dhamma interwoven into the meditation instruction, and certainly Dhamma is the focus of the evening Dhamma talk (following the IMS model), and certainly Dhamma/practice is the focus of the question and answer sessions. Obviously one is going to think about Dhamma when not doing formal meditation, and one also doing a formal and informal meditation practice that is focused on Dhamma.

Also, there are study retreats, where reading suttas can be part of one's practice as is meditation.

good points.

[daverupa]

But how do you really know that your Right View is the right Right View?

When you know certain acts of body, speech, & mind are now impossible for you.

Over-estimation of oneself is the danger here, of course, so it's a matter of overlooking an underlying tendency, or else seeing truly that certain of them are uprooted.

Since over-estimation is a danger, patience and practice instead of making claims for oneself seems to be the best approach.

[tiltbillings]

But how do you really know that your Right View is the right Right View?

I believe and see its benefits. Even if it "was not taught", this is my belief that it is worthwhile goal.

So, if I were a Buddhist who did not believe in literal rebirth, but my practice was beneficial it lessening of my suffering, and there was an increase in compassion and generosity, and insight into the conditioned nature of self, and I believed that this is very much in accordance with the sutta teachings, would I have right Right View, or any Right View at all?