What exactly is craving?

[Alex123]

Hello all,

What exactly is craving (taṇhā)? Yes, I know the standard definition of craving for sights, sounds, etc. But what exactly does it mean to crave for sights, sounds, etc?


What exactly is the difference between looking with craving, vs looking without craving?



Thanks,

Alex

[SarathW]

I have the craving to visit Dhamma Wheel. (Not to mention continuously looking for some sugar. )
It is called Dhamma Thanha.
If I am an Arahant, probably you might not see me here.

[Alex123]

SarathW,

But what exactly is "craving to visit Dhamma Wheel" ?

What is the difference between visiting DW with craving, vs visiting DW without craving?

[LXNDR]

as far as i see it the root of any craving is craving for being/becoming, craving for experience, which is provided through sense gratification

at the basis of craving for being/becoming is self-view, the self is fixated on self preservation, reproduction and continuation realized via experience of the world, since it's only meaningful within the subject-object relationship

so i'd say that "to crave for sights, sounds, etc." is to crave for the sense of being, which is synonymous with the sense of satisfaction gained from experience

looking without craving i guess is looking totally impartially and objectively, where there's no "I" between the object and the perception, or after the perception

[SarathW]

SarathW,

But what exactly is "craving to visit Dhamma Wheel" ?

What is the difference between visiting DW with craving, vs visiting DW without craving?

It is the craving for knowledge.
However it come under right effort as it leads to wisdom.
All craving is not bad.
I have doubt about many things.
Arahants do not have doubts.
Caving is bad when it take us to the next level clinging. (Upaddana).
If we attach to Buddhism and take a strong view on defending, it becomes a hindrance.
Some times we are get in to a debate and try to defend our position vigorously.
It is a form of clinging. So we should learn to let go of all views.

[thepea]

What exactly is craving (taṇhā)? Yes, I know the standard definition of craving for sights, sounds, etc. But what exactly does it mean to crave for sights, sounds, etc?

A sensation appears, and liking or disliking begins. This fleeting moment, if we are unaware of it, is repeated and intensified into craving and aversion, becoming a strong emotion that eventually overpowers the conscious mind. We become caught up in the emotion, and all our better judgment is swept aside. The result is that we find ourselves engaged in unwholesome speech and action, harming ourselves and others. We create misery for ourselves, suffering now and in the future, because of one moment of blind reaction.

S.N. Goenka

What exactly is the difference between looking with craving, vs looking without craving?

But if we are aware at the point where the process of reaction begins–that is, if we are aware of the sensation–we can choose not to allow any reaction to occur or to intensify… in those moments the mind is free. Perhaps at first these may be only a few moments in a meditation period, and the rest of the time the mind remains submerged in the old habit of reaction to sensations, the old round of craving, aversion, and misery. But with repeated practice those few brief moments will become seconds, will become minutes, until finally the old habit of reaction is broken, and the mind remains continuously at peace. This is how suffering can be stopped.

S.N. Goenka

[Ceisiwr]

Hello all,

What exactly is craving (taṇhā)? Yes, I know the standard definition of craving for sights, sounds, etc. But what exactly does it mean to crave for sights, sounds, etc?


What exactly is the difference between looking with craving, vs looking without craving?



Thanks,

Alex

Wanting the situation to be different to how it is? Non-craving is accepting dhammas as they arise and cease, it would seem.

[Alex123]

Wanting the situation to be different to how it is? Non-craving is accepting dhammas as they arise and cease, it would seem.

What if a person is freezing in -40 weather. Should he want situation to be different (go into heated room, put some more cloth, warm up somehow etc)? Or should he freeze to death?

[SarathW]

Wanting the situation to be different to how it is? Non-craving is accepting dhammas as they arise and cease, it would seem.

What if a person is freezing in -40 weather. Should he want situation to be different (go into heated room, put some more cloth, warm up somehow etc)? Or should he freeze to death?

Buddha wore a robe to protect from elements and lived in a protected place.
Please compare this to Jains who were naked ascetics.
There are three kind of craving.
Kama Thanha,
"And what is craving? These six are classes of craving: craving for forms, craving for sounds, craving for smells, craving for tastes, craving for tactile sensations, craving for ideas. This is called craving.

Bhava Thanha and Vibhava Thanha.

Thanha Sutta.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[seeker242]

What exactly is the difference between looking with craving, vs looking without craving?

For a learned person who has fathomed the Dhamma, clearly seeing this world & the next, desirable things don't charm the mind, undesirable ones bring no resistance. His acceptance & rejection are scattered, gone to their end, do not exist. Knowing the dustless, sorrowless state, he discerns rightly, has gone, beyond becoming, to the Further Shore — SN 36.6

I think looking with craving would be something like "I see this things and I really enjoy it!" Or, "I see this things and I really don't like it!" Whereas looking without craving would be just seeing, without needing to accept it or reject whatever is seen.

[dhammarelax]

Hello all,

What exactly is craving (taṇhā)? Yes, I know the standard definition of craving for sights, sounds, etc. But what exactly does it mean to crave for sights, sounds, etc?


What exactly is the difference between looking with craving, vs looking without craving?



Thanks,

Alex

Bhante Vimalramsi interpretation is that craving manifests like tension in body and mind and to let it go means to relax, looking without craving means to look without tension.

smile all the time
dhammarelax

[Wri]

A simple definition is that craving is irresistible desire, fueled by the sense of discontentment.

When you are fueled by the Dhamma, you have inner contentment. You come to things with happiness already there. You already feel complete. You may do things with desire, because those are the right things to do, not because you're trying to feed your ego or gain some temporary pleasure.

[mirco]

Craving (taṇhā) — The weak link in the process of Dependent Origination
which manifests as tension and tightness in mind and body as it is first appearing.

The common definition for the word “Craving” is “to want” or “to desire”, but there is much more to this word.
According to the Buddha there is a definite pattern with everything that arises.

For instance, in order “to see” there is a set way things happen. First, there must be a functioning sense door such as the eye. Next there must be color and form. When the eye hits color and form then eye-consciousness arises. The meeting of these three things is called eye-contact. With eye-contact as condition eye-feeling arises. Feeling (vedanā) is pleasant, painful, or neither-pleasant-nor-painful, and this is either physical or mental feeling. With eye feeling as condition, then eye-craving arises.

Now “Craving” (taṇhā), in all of its many different forms of seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling, bodily sensations, and thoughts, always arises as being a tension and tightness in both mind and body. “Craving” (taṇhā) always manifests as the “I like it” or “I don’t like it” mind and can be recognized as tension or tightness in both one’s mind and body. This is where we come to understand the importance of the Buddha’s instructions about consciously tranquilizing one’s mind and body. When the meditator has any kind of distraction arising that pulls their attention away from their object of meditation, then a feeling immediately arises, and next, right after that the “I like it” or “I don’t like it” mind, i.e. “Craving” (taṇhā) arises. This is sometimes seen as a big gross tightness and sometimes as a very subtle tightness or tension in mind and body.

As “Craving” (taṇhā) is the cause of suffering (the Second Noble Truth) what the meditator must do is softly let go of that tension or tightness (i.e. relax) and this must consciously be done. It doesn’t happen automatically as is demonstrated in the meditation instruction given to us by the Buddha. We then gently redirect mind’s attention back to the object of meditation (this step is the Third Noble Truth or the cessation of craving or suffering). In practical terms this relaxing is the most important and major step that the Buddha discovered, revealing clearly the Fourth Noble Truth—that is “the way” leading to the Cessation of Suffering. The Buddha saw that when “Craving” (taṇhā) was let go of, mind became clear, open, and very observant. He saw that the thinking mind did not arise. The think ing mind in Buddhism is called “Clinging” (upādāna).

So, when a teacher says something like “Cling to Nothing” they are actually saying to “stop thinking about things and just observe”. This is good advice as far as it goes. Actually it would be better to say “Crave Nothing” but that would be misunderstood because the question would arise of “how are we supposed to do that?”

“Crave Nothing” means “to notice and let go of the tightness or tension in one’s mind and body before it arises”.
How does one do this? When one sees a “Feeling” arise, if they relax at that very moment, then the “Craving” (taṇhā) won’t arise. “Craving” (taṇhā) is the weak link in the cycle or process of Dependent Origination. It can be recognized and let go of, and when it is released then the Clinging” (upādāna) won’t arise.

One thing that has become popular today is the putting together of these two words, “Craving/Clinging” and I think it helps to cause even more confusion. Craving is the “I like it” or “I don’t like it” mind and “Clinging” is all of the thoughts, ideas, opinions, and concepts why mind likes or dislikes a feeling when it arises. These are two very different and separate parts to the process of how things work. Putting them together just makes one’s understanding of this process even cloudier. Some teachers today define “Craving and Clinging” as “Grasping”. And as I just explained that moves away from the more precise definitions that the Buddha showed us within his teaching. To eliminate Clinging is not to eliminate suffering if Craving is the root cause.

http://library.dhammasukha.org/uploads/ ... f-love.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"

Earlier version

4. CRAVING (taṇhā) and CLINGING (upādāna)
There is a very important difference in Craving and Clinging. One of the most dangerous things to have happened today was introducing the word "grasping" which so many people have come to use in place of "craving and clinging". This is not good practice because it cheats the student out of an opportunity to investigate specifically the difference in these two links for themselves.

CRAVING (Taṇhā) manifests as a slight tension and tightness in mind and in body as a Feeling is arising and moving into the craving link. ( usually indicated on the sides of the head or at the base of the skull in the back)

At this point, Craving manifests as the "I like it" or the "I don’t like it" mind. Of course this is equivalent to the "I want it" or attachment and tension of pulling to you; OR it can be equivalent to the "I don’t want it" and aversion and tension of pushing away. On either side of the coin, the tension is equal and needs to be released.

CLINGING (Upādāna) on the other hand is conditioned by that link we just called Craving. Immediately following this action, clinging is the rising up in mind of the "story of WHY I do or do not like it", whatever has just arisen.

CLINGING (Upādāna) is the chatter that follows craving as one gets involved with this story about why you like or dislike what has arise and the thoughts stream out from there.

Most important to understand is that within CRAVING link is where "personality first appears as I! " Atta or (idea of a self). It is here that the idea of a self raises its head and gets involved.

To put the two links of Craving and Clinging together was never intended by the Buddha and it takes away the opportunity for the student to sort this out as their sensitivity develops properly and their awareness sharpens during the meditation so they can actually observe these links happening through noticing subtle tensions arising simultaneously.

As we all know the Buddha said that CRAVING is at the root of suffering. It’s the weak link in the cycle. If one can RELEASE whatever is arising when just beginning to identify this point of craving, then one can experience a brief cessation of suffering as the tension falls away. However you must remember that if one stops the chatter of CLINGING, one has not reached the summit but rather a false peak! Do not be deceived. One has NOT abandoned the CRAVING. It is "with craving as condition, clinging arises." This is key to understand. For this reason, it’s important to keep the two links as they are taught in the texts; clearly "two" separate links, and go on with the training.

So to summarize this:

CRAVING (Taṇhā) manifests as tightness and tension in mind and body as it arises.
Craving is where Personality first arises with "I" like it, or, "I" don’t like it" labeling a feeling that arises.

CLINGING (Upādāna)- is the run- on story that comes up for the student in their mind about "Why" they like or dislike whatever arose…
Sister Khema
http://library.dhammasukha.org/words-words-words.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"

[Alex123]

Hello Mirco, dhammarelax



Thank you for your post. I should incorporate deliberate relaxation of tension in body and mind.

[samseva]

Craving is threefold: kāma-taṇhā, bhava-taṇhā and vibhava-taṇhā. Its spectrum of intensity goes from its most grossest to its most subtle forms.

- Kāma-taṇhā, which is sensual craving, is craving for the 6 sense-objects (craving for visible objects, sounds, odours, tastes, bodily impressions, and mental impressions).
- Bhava-taṇhā, which is craving for existence, is craving for life, craving to obtain something, liking something, greed, etc.
- Vibhava-taṇhā, which is craving for non-existence, is craving for death, craving to get rid of something, disliking something, resistance, hate, etc.

One can discuss this, but you know what craving is by meditating and constant mindfulness. Surely you've experienced disliking someone or wanting something badly? The feeling of craving is unpleasant.