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Does Quantum Mechanics contradict Buddhism - Dhamma Wheel

Does Quantum Mechanics contradict Buddhism

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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clw_uk
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Does Quantum Mechanics contradict Buddhism

Postby clw_uk » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:31 pm

Modern Science in the form of Quantum mechanics has shown that you can actually get sub-atomic particles coming out of nothing with no cause and hence no interdependent arising. Does this cancel out a fundemental Buddhist doctrine or interdependence?




metta
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vinasp
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Re: Does Quantum Mechanics contradict Buddhism

Postby vinasp » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:04 pm

Hi clw-uk,

1. No, because cause and effect still applies to anything bigger than sub-atomic particles.
2. No, because Dependent Origination is about what has been mentally constructed, not about the external world.

Best wishes, Vincent.

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Re: Does Quantum Mechanics contradict Buddhism

Postby clw_uk » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:23 pm

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Cittasanto
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Re: Does Quantum Mechanics contradict Buddhism

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:28 pm

Where does quantum mahanic say this? and when was this theory proven? not that it matters as Quantum Mechanics isnt dealing in the same area as Buddhism


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Dhammabodhi
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Re: Does Quantum Mechanics contradict Buddhism

Postby Dhammabodhi » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:30 pm

As far as I know, the appearance and disappearance of sub-atomic particles is not that well-understood that one can definitively say that they "come out of nowhere without any cause". M-theory( a version of string theory) purports that particles disappear into hidden dimensions( this is far from being proved). This might be a reason why Gravity is a "weak" force, because it is being shared by other dimensions and possibly other universes. The Large Hadron Collider at CERN , is going to test this hypothesis next year.

I recommend these:

The Elegant Universe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfarf7XDqys

Parallel Universes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMFzqbYQigg

Metta,
Dhammabodhi :anjali:
Last edited by Dhammabodhi on Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cittasanto
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Re: Does Quantum Mechanics contradict Buddhism

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:42 pm

Hi DB
That is my understading also, they in all likelyhood come frm somewhere but where?

although one reasongravty is so week is becase ihas no fixed point(s) like magnetism has its polls, an other forces ave their fixed points (lack of better way to dscribe it) so gravity isn't as strong in apearance becase of that, not because it isn't as strong!


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Prasadachitta
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Re: Does Quantum Mechanics contradict Buddhism

Postby Prasadachitta » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:49 pm

Dont they come into being in dependence upon the observance of them coming into being? I am under the impression that at the quantum level it is whether or not we measure an event that creates the particularities of the event.

Gabe
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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Dhammabodhi
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Re: Does Quantum Mechanics contradict Buddhism

Postby Dhammabodhi » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:58 pm

Hi Manapa,

Although I don't know much of String Theory, what I understand is as follows:

Gravitons are hypothetical particles associated to gravity. String theory predicts the existence of these particles as vibrating closed strings. M-theory deals with the so-called "D-branes", which are models for our universe(s?), and gravitons, which are not "stuck" to these D-branes can leak out to other D-branes, thus causing weakness in gravitational force. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brane_cosmology

As far as analogues to magnetic poles, electric charge monopoles were recently produced in the lab. But for the other forces, esp. strong and weak nuclear forces, I don't know whether such a concept exists.

I hope a physicist among us can help us out better. :reading:

Metta,
Dhammabodhi
"Take rest, take rest."-S.N.Goenka

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Re: Does Quantum Mechanics contradict Buddhism

Postby PeterB » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:03 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: Does Quantum Mechanics contradict Buddhism

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:27 pm

Hi DB
Yeah frommemory that is how it was explained to me in brief, but I think graatons are prove aren't they???

anyway yeah most of us aren't scientists here, andthe rudimentary knowledge some of us have may be adequate for a bit of fun conjeture it isn't adequate to actuly disern the truth of the subject. if you want science go to a scientst forum! or a science class?

on that note I wonder how our fav scientist member mawkish is doing?


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Mawkish1983
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Location: Essex, UK

Re: Does Quantum Mechanics contradict Buddhism

Postby Mawkish1983 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:35 pm

Not bad thanks :) just contemplating the best way to answer...

Edit: simple answer, no. There's a lot of misunderstanding about quantum physics floating around here (it's normal, don't worry!) and I'm not sure if trying to condense four years of physics lectures into one post would benefit anyone. I suppose you could look up the 'principal of equivalence' and realise that quantum field theory is a predictive model not a practical mechanism, then learn the difference between the observer principal and Heisenburg's uncertainty principal, but how is any of this helpful for liberation from suffering?
Last edited by Mawkish1983 on Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dhammabodhi
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Re: Does Quantum Mechanics contradict Buddhism

Postby Dhammabodhi » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:44 pm

"Take rest, take rest."-S.N.Goenka

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Cittasanto
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Re: Does Quantum Mechanics contradict Buddhism

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:59 pm

now there is a a coineky dink havent senyu in a while


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Dhammabodhi
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Re: Does Quantum Mechanics contradict Buddhism

Postby Dhammabodhi » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:00 pm

Hi Mawkish,

Could you point out the inaccuracies in my posts above? I'm eager to learn. I've had courses in Quantum physics but that was a long time ago.

Thanks,
Dhammabodhi
"Take rest, take rest."-S.N.Goenka

Mawkish1983
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Re: Does Quantum Mechanics contradict Buddhism

Postby Mawkish1983 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:11 pm


Mawkish1983
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Re: Does Quantum Mechanics contradict Buddhism

Postby Mawkish1983 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:51 pm


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Re: Does Quantum Mechanics contradict Buddhism

Postby Mawkish1983 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:54 pm


Mawkish1983
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Re: Does Quantum Mechanics contradict Buddhism

Postby Mawkish1983 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:56 pm


Mawkish1983
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Re: Does Quantum Mechanics contradict Buddhism

Postby Mawkish1983 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:13 pm


Mawkish1983
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Re: Does Quantum Mechanics contradict Buddhism

Postby Mawkish1983 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:29 pm



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