Intentional Community

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
SarathW
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Re: Intentional Community

Post by SarathW »

Buddha said "Good friendship (kalyana Mitta)" is the all about holy life.
Instead of trying to create an intentional community, find a good friend(s), and be a good friend.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Diego Hemken
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Re: Intentional Community

Post by Diego Hemken »

dxm_dxm wrote:You should be carefull with this greed for merit.
Hahaha. Well, one of the reasons I am excited for this idea is because, at least in my opinion, I am not an idiot. I would never do something like capturing animals so that I could release them later. That is just foolishness. I don't think I am capable of things like that. That would send me to hell anyway.

Anyway, I believe it is wise to amass merit. Indeed the Buddha taught so many times, according to the Pali canon.
Evil deeds not doing,
Good deeds gathering up,
Purifying one's own mind
This is the teaching
of the awakened ones.

- Dhammapada Verse #183
http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/BDLM/lesson/pali ... tha183.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Monks, don't be afraid of acts of merit. This is another way of saying what is blissful, desirable, pleasing, endearing, charming — i.e., acts of merit. I am cognizant that, having long performed meritorious deeds, I long experienced desirable, pleasing, endearing, charming results."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... ml#iti-022" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
SarathW wrote:Buddha said "Good friendship (kalyana Mitta)" is the all about holy life.
Instead of trying to create an intentional community, find a good friend(s), and be a good friend.
How is it better to have a few friends with right view but live surrounded and heavily influenced by a culture based on wrong view than to live surrounded by friends with right view and a culture based on right view?
SarathW
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Re: Intentional Community

Post by SarathW »

Even in an intentional community you have to find a good friend.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Diego Hemken
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Re: Intentional Community

Post by Diego Hemken »

SarathW wrote:Even in an intentional community you have to find a good friend.
Yes that is true but what better place to find good friends than somewhere where basically everyone has been inspired by the Pali Canon! It's just the best human situation I can imagine.
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Re: Intentional Community

Post by SarathW »

Agree.
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
dxm_dxm
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Re: Intentional Community

Post by dxm_dxm »

Hahaha. Well, one of the reasons I am excited for this idea is because, at least in my opinion, I am not an idiot. I would never do something like capturing animals so that I could release them later. That is just foolishness. I don't think I am capable of things like that. That would send me to hell anyway.
Those people in the asian countries do not know this is happening. They just want to make merit and so a tradition appeared in buying animals to release them as a way of making merit. Then other people began catching animals in order to sell them because the demand for this was high, many people wanted to do merit by releasing animals. The point was you should not be to greedy with making merit.

If a person does a deed with the thought "I'll enjoy the fruit of this good deed in the future" than it is not a good deed that is worth much value. If one get rids of the greed inside him through practice then the motive for him doing a good deed will change to a more selfless one then his good deed will bear more fruit. In the article I post the buddha lists the 7 motives for doing good deeds in order from the lowest to the highest a man can achieve by making profound changes in himself along the years. You are still young, same age as me, so much time to perfect yourself and become more compassionate so that the good deeds will be done with a more pure hearth and will bear more fruit. In my opinion, there is no need to rush into doing as many good deeds at possible as fast as possible. Rushing too much might increase this greed of having a lot of merit for the future. I think it is best at first to focus more on becoming more compassionate through the parctice of metta

I rarely or never find myself doing good deeds for other reasons than point 1 and point 2 of that list. So I think doing more metta will be more helpful than doing good deeds at this stage. If you have such a determination for such a big project, use that determination for the practice of metta :anjali:
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Diego Hemken
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Re: Intentional Community

Post by Diego Hemken »

I think I am capable of avoiding foolishness like that.

And I disagree with you that doing things for future reward is not highly profitable. Think how much beings would benefit from a community of people who have their heads on straight! It would be so great. And to know that it was because of my effort would be extremely satisfying. It is something that when I die, will be a sweet blessing, so bountiful and bright. And at death, that is very valuable. I know I have done evil in the past. I don't know where I am going. To have done things which give the dhamma to beings, things which help myself and others to have a good life and be a good person and make merit and grow in the dhamma will be very very valuable to me when I have to leave all my struggles and endeavors, my ego and my stuff. Not to mention, I think I could be relatively happy throughout my life at a good community.

I had actually read that sutta a couple days ago when I was compiling a list of suttas for householders. I first read it years ago. There's also another one I was looking for but couldn't find. I'll post it later if I find it.
Dana Sutta AN 7.49, excerpt
Translated by the Ven. Thanissaro
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Having given this gift seeking his own profit — with a mind attached [to the reward], seeking to store up for himself, [with the thought], 'I'll enjoy this after death' — on the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of the Four Great Kings. Then, having exhausted that action, that power, that status, that sovereignty, he is a returner, coming back to this world...
dagon
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Re: Intentional Community

Post by dagon »

You maybe better off looking at a pre-existing intentional community such as one of the eco-villages or a permaculture intentional community.

I spent time around Nimbin in Northern NSW, in the process getting to know some of the original hippies and their kids. as well as the later arrivals culmination in the establishment of the early permaculture communities.

One of the people I met a few times was Bill Molison (?) from Tasmania who is often referred to as 'the father of permaculture" If you do not already know of him and his work this would be a possible introduction,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cK8Qdd0l9o" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To assist non ausies with translation"
: little john / jonnie referrers to John Howard the former Liberal leader and Aus PM

The common joke in the area was that hippies do not die - they get business degrees.

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dxm_dxm
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Re: Intentional Community

Post by dxm_dxm »

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/lee/demons.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In the area of the religion, he gave tremendous support and encouragement, building a great deal of goodness — so much so that it backfired on him. He gave continual donations to the bhikkhu sangha until one day, toward the end of his life, he decided that he wanted to use some money to buy donations as a form of homage to the Buddha, homage to the Dhamma, and homage to the Sangha. After he had formulated this intention, but before he had had the opportunity to spend as much as he wanted, he fell ill. So he wanted to hurry up and finish making merit in line with his plans. He sent one of his officials to draw more money from the treasury, which held both government funds and the king's private funds. When the official got to the treasury, the treasurer wouldn't hand over the money, because he felt that it should go only to the government.

So the official returned to inform King Asoka, who got upset. "These are my funds," he thought. He wanted to use the funds as a form of homage to the Buddha, homage to the Dhamma, and homage to the Sangha, but when he couldn't do it, his mind turned sour. And it so happened that while his mind was soured, he died. Now, because he died while he was angry at his treasurer for not letting him make merit, the result was that he was born as a gigantic snake, an enormous python, slithering back and forth around the royal treasury. And there he had to stay, fixated on his possessions, for many days, which prevented him from enjoying the results of the good he had done. When he was alive, he had done good in lots of ways: building temples, building chedis, planting huge numbers of Bodhi trees, giving huge donations to the Sangha, observing the precepts, listening to the Dhamma. When he died, he should have been reborn as a male or female deva, but instead he went and took birth as a snake. This is an instance of how good intentions, meritorious intentions, when they aren't fulfilled, can lead to defilement and rebirth as a common animal. This is why thoughts of making merit, even though they're meritorious, can turn into demons.
only a pure hearth developed through metta can guard against greed :anjali:
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Re: Intentional Community

Post by DNS »

dxm_dxm wrote: only a pure hearth developed through metta can guard against greed :anjali:
What makes you think Diego is operating from greed? He is just talking about the possibility of a Buddhist intentional community. I don't see him saying things like it is going to be named after him, something like, "Santo Diego Community" unless of course if it would be in San Diego, then that might be a good name. :tongue:

What I see is just someone passionate about the idea of a Buddhist community and talking about it. That's all. Ananda and Buddha also praised Buddhist community.
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Re: Intentional Community

Post by dxm_dxm »

I was not saying that. I was just pointing out that besides good deeds one should also continue to develop more compassion so that the good deeds become even more valuable. Nobody is perfect in terms of compassion, there is always room for more. I would like to hear more about the community focusing on that.

Metta
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Diego Hemken
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Re: Intentional Community

Post by Diego Hemken »

dagon, I am aware that there are lots of intentional communities, many of them "eco-villages," and it would be a great idea for me to visit them to learn and gain experience, but to try to spend the rest of my life there would be missing the point.

I am tired of living in a culture of people who are ignorant of what the Buddha taught. To me, the teachings of the Buddha are not just some shallow curiosity to help reduce stress or something. They change everything! How could you stand living in a world where people are so far from the truth! It's craziness and the only reason to do it is if there is no alternative. I will not spend my life struggling to survive, contributing to a perverse economy, where all the people around me are living as if a human had not developed extremely great parami and discovered samadhi, metta, sila, past lives, the kamma by which one attains a birth in heaven or hell, and the deathless! It doesn't make sense. Things don't have to be this way. It might seem that way because we are used to it, but I know it could be very different. Yes, it would be difficult to get a good community going, but it would be a way better thing to do with my life than being part of this mess. That's how I feel. Don't you?


dxm_dxm
Well since you insist, I must say I am not sure of your perspective. Are you one of those people who think one should abandon all desire? I don't think so. I think that I have to generate a very strong desire for worthwhile things. I think it is the appropriate thing to do. If you are not going to go forth and do jhana keeping the vinaya in seclusion practicing sense restraint, then what are you going to do? Where? With who? Why?

EDIT:
Sorry I was typing the first portion of this post before I saw the last two posts.

dxm_dxm, I guess I assumed people would already have an idea of the potential of such a community. Here I will briefly go over a few ideas.

I would like for the community to run a free meditation center. Like the Goenka ones, except more accurate to the Pali Canon, and with a sutta study component, as well as allowing more liberty with respect to what may be intentionally developed.

I would like for the community to offer bed, food, showers, and programs to travelers in exchange for work.

I would like for the community to build secluded accomodations for bhikkhus. There could be a large monastery facility given to the sangha, and some other lodging to be retained by the community for the purpose of inviting good bhikkhus from around the world for different durations.

I would like for the community to have various facilities, equipment, and programs for the householders to use (maybe owned communally), including athletic facilities (sports field, gym), performing arts facilities and equipment (music, stage, etc.), a workshop (woodshop, machine shop, welding, crafts, etc.), and other stuff that householders like to do.

I would like for the community to raise their children way better than I was raised. Honestly the schooling that I received could have been way better, both in terms of academics, values, athletics, and arts.

I would also like for the community to do businesses that are beneficial for the world, such as plant-based proteins, water-conserving landscaping, shoes that don't cramp your feet into a not-foot shape, educational material, and infinite other possibilities that help with sustainability, compassion, or other good things.

I think all of these things combined would not just make for a good life but for growth in the dhamma and a good birth. A lot of them could be done in a capitalist system, but it's hard, and there still wouldn't be the immersive aspect to it, which is one of the most important parts, since humans are social creatures and are very strongly influenced by their immediate social environment.

I would also like for the community to grow good quality food and lumber sustainably, and maintain a lot of open natural space, and be secluded from metropolitan areas. Out in the country somewhere beautiful, with a reliable source of potable water. Cold is okay because it's way cheaper and safer in case of crisis. I wouldn't mind for the community to be an association of different communities, that way enabling more diversity and freedom while still allowing for like-minded individuals to form groups.

These are all just ideas that I am typing out as quickly as possible. There would have to be further brainstorming, research, and refinement before a clear plan could be described. I have to play a board game with my parents now I will check back later.
Last edited by Diego Hemken on Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
dxm_dxm
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Re: Intentional Community

Post by dxm_dxm »

Are you one of those people who think one should abandon all desire? I don't think so. I think that I have to generate a very strong desire for worthwhile things.
Nope, not one of those guys. That is good advice probably for sotopanas. I think for the moment that would not be practical advice. I think there is a sutta where buddha says that we should use desire in leading us the right way and at the end, when it has done it's job and is not needed anymore, dismiss it.


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Diego Hemken
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Re: Intentional Community

Post by Diego Hemken »

Note my edit to my previous post. I didn't want to double post.

Well then what would you say is the difference between a worthy goal and a non-worthy one?
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Re: Intentional Community

Post by santa100 »

Diego Hemken wrote:I would like for the community to run a free meditation center...
I would like for the community to ...
I would like for the community to ...
...
You probably already heard about the "shoes simile", a great piece of ancient wisdom which goes something like:
A wise man once asked: "If one were to cover all of one's paths with leather in order to walk barefoot without stepping on thorns, glass, and dirt, would that be practical?"
"Of course not", was the reply. "If one puts on leather shoes, one would achieve the same much more easily".
"Similarly,", continued the wise man, "if one wants to make the whole outside world smooth, one would never be finished. If, however, one purifies one's mind, one can go safely anywhere".

The samsaric world we live in, by definition is full of defilements and suffering. The Buddha and His noble disciples attained enlightenment while living right here in this defiled world, not in some beautiful "Pure Land" universe. They came from all walks of life, kings, nobles, robbers, prostitutes, etc. Some lived among the wholesome ascet0ics community, others carried on various duties while living the dusty path of lay life. Their senses weren't always permeated with wholesome objects but they kept going forward, patiently and fearlessly until the final goal was achieved. The world we're living in now obviously is very "different" from the Buddha's 2500 years ago, but with diligent efforts, everything is possible. An intentional community would be nice, but it shouldn't be treated as a must-have prerequisite for one's progress on the Path:
MN 152 wrote:there arises in a monk what is agreeable, what is disagreeable, what is agreeable & disagreeable. He discerns that 'This agreeable thing has arisen in me, this disagreeable thing... this agreeable & disagreeable thing has arisen in me. And that is compounded, gross, dependently co-arisen. But this is peaceful, this is exquisite, i.e., equanimity.' With that, the arisen agreeable thing... disagreeable thing... agreeable & disagreeable thing ceases, and equanimity takes its stance. Just as drops of water roll off a gently sloping lotus leaf & do not remain there, that is how quickly, how rapidly, how easily, no matter what it refers to, the arisen agreeable thing... disagreeable thing... agreeable & disagreeable thing ceases, and equanimity takes its stance.
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