The end of suffering is the end of dukkha vedana?

[heraclito27]

The end of suffering is the end of dukkha vedana?

[Cittasanto]

The end of suffering (dukkha) is the end of dukkha!


don't really need to add any more types of dukkha, it simply is Dukkha which ends. but that isn't to say that we cease to feel things, or see.... things we may of found dukkha, but the reaction to them we have, ceases.

[tiltbillings]

but the reaction to them we have,

based upon greed, hatred and delusion

ceases.

[Ben]

Hi heraclito27
The end of suffering is the end of dukkha.
Vedana is classified as either pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral.
Some vedana are caused by such factors as nutriment and other external factors.
While the end of suffering is the end of dukkha, it isn;t necesarily the end of unpleasant sensation.
You see examples of this in the sutta where the Buddha reclines in order to relieve back pain and when Devadatta throws a rock which hits the Buddhas foot and causes it to bleed.
kind regards

Ben

[heraclito27]

Really?
Dukkha <> dukkha-vedana.

But then, what is dukkha?

Thanks for answering .

[acinteyyo]

But then, what is dukkha?

first noble truth

"Now what is the noble truth of suffering (dukkha)? Birth is suffering, aging is suffering, death is suffering; sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair are suffering; association with the unbeloved is stressful; separation from the loved is suffering; not getting what one wants is suffering. In short, the five clinging-aggregates are suffering.

[heraclito27]

But for example birth, aging and death are material process. Matter doesn't know anything, is consiousness what knows. What does it know? It knows sense impressions as back pain and concepts like "I'm diying, I'm old, I can't do things".
It's because these kind of consiousness that arise dukkha-vedana.

If my body is dying, but this phenomena doesn't produce any painful sense impression, and does't produce any painful mental concept then I have no problem at all with body diying.

How can I perceive dukkha if is not by means or in the dimension of vedana?

"Now what is the noble truth of suffering (dukkha)? Birth is suffering, aging is suffering, death is suffering; sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair are suffering; association with the unbeloved is stressful; separation from the loved is suffering; not getting what one wants is suffering. In short, the five clinging-aggregates are suffering.

[tiltbillings]

If my body is dying, but this phenomena doesn't produce any painful sense impression, and does't produce any painful mental concept then I have no problem at all with body diying.

But when the Blessed One had entered upon the rainy season, there arose in him a severe illness, and sharp and deadly pains came upon him. And the Blessed One endured them mindfully, clearly comprehending and unperturbed. - Maha-parinibbana Sutta

[Dhammabodhi]

heraclito27 wrote:But then, what is dukkha?

[Rhino]

heraclito27 wrote:But then, what is dukkha?

Great explanation

[Sanghamitta]

heraclito27 wrote:But then, what is dukkha?

Superb.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings heraclito27,

Dukkha has multiple subtleties and can be translated in many ways depending on those subtleties... the more common translations include suffering, pain or stress.

Arahantship ends suffering and stress, but it does not end physical pain.

Metta,
Retro.

[phil]

heraclito27 wrote:But then, what is dukkha?

Superb.

Very good indeed! Perhaps the Venerable (wonderful speaking style) could have expanded on the sports metaphor, though. He used the "stress" translation instead of "suffering" and emphasized the dukkha involved in excitement, in shouting on your favourite football team, or bungee jumping. But that excitement is only one aspect of dukkha, isn't it. There is also dukkha involved in the calmest of experiences, say canoeing on a misty lake at sunrise. Because of the impermanence, and the longing for a repeat of the experience it can condition, and the dissatisfaction with harsh situations it can condition. I know everyone knows that, but thought I'd just add to the venerable's excellent talk a little. Thanks for posting it!

Metta,

Phil

[Ben]

Hi Phil
Indeed, everything experienced within samsara from the most gross to the supremely super-fine experiences within the arupa jhanas, condtions dukkha if attachment is present.
metta

Ben