Are there beings becoming buddhas in deva realms?

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Are there beings becoming buddhas in deva realms?

Postby Sekha » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:45 am

well... you know the question already :)
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As a sweet-smelling and beautiful lotus flower may grow upon a heap of rubbish thrown on the highway, so also, out of the rubbish heap of beings may appear a disciple of the Buddha, who with his wisdom, shines resplendent in wisdom. -/ Dhp 58-59
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Re: Are there beings becoming buddhas in deva realms?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:15 pm

The Buddhas only arise in the human realm. Prior to their final existence, when the Bodhisattas attain all four stages of the Noble Path and became Buddhas and Arahants, the Bodhisattas reside in the Tusita deva realm.
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Re: Are there beings becoming buddhas in deva realms?

Postby Abyss » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:51 pm

Are there beings becoming buddhas in deva realms?

According to the discourses of the Buddha, a (Sammasam-)Buddha is the "teacher of the gods and humans". Since (most) humans cannot perceive devas, such a teacher has to be human in order to be accessible for both types of beings.
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Re: Are there beings becoming buddhas in deva realms?

Postby Kenshou » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:45 pm

I can't speak for the original poster, but I interpreted his question as are there beings in the Deva realms becoming Arahants/ "liberated/awakened" or whatever term you might pick. Can not any awakened being be called a Buddha, in the sense of "enlightened one"? This distinguishing a Buddha from a Sammásambuddha. I seem to recall quite a few instances in the canon where Devas etc. attain liberation upon hearing a teaching, but I could be mistaken.

If Op did did indeed mean Sammasambuddha, then consider this post null and void.
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Re: Are there beings becoming buddhas in deva realms?

Postby cooran » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:01 pm

Dukkhanirodha wrote:well... you know the question already :)


No. As Ven. Pesala says - it is only in the human realm.

This may be of interest:
Devas and Devis
EXCERPT:
All these divine abodes are full of carnal pleasures, and they are fully enjoyed by celestial beings. But of them, those who achieve Arahantship and those who achieve Anagami-magga being wearied of sensual pleasures cannot stay long in Deva Loka. The Anagamis die in order to be reborn as Brahmas. The Arahants enter parinibbana
.
Therefore, we cannot hope to become a yogi and meditate in the abode of devas, where divine sensual pleasures engulf us. Only those devas who had very diligently practised meditation in the previous human existence, or only those who are opportune to hear the Dhamma of the Buddha in person can improve and augment their virtue in the deva abode. Other devas are inclined to forget the Dhamma as they enter the gates of Nandanavana Garden.

In Deva Loka, let alone Vipassana meditation, even the observance of sila (precepts) is difficult to perform. The devis would entice the devas who soon tend to discard the precepts. Call to mind how Campeyya, the King of Serpents, failed to observe precepts in the serpent abode; and how Sakka had to alight to the human world in order to observe Uposatha sila. Because of these unfavourable environments, all Bodhisattas perform their fulfilment of ten Paramis in the human world only. They do not live to their full term in Deva Loka, instead they deliberately terminate their life-span to be reborn as human beings and practise Paramis (Perfections).
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/buddhism/abdmjn11.htm

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Re: Are there beings becoming buddhas in deva realms?

Postby salmon » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:09 pm

This will probably qualify as a off-topic, but I need to ask it...

While it's difficult for the Devas to keep Uposatha Precepts, do they at least keep the minimum 5 precepts? I should think so right? Otherwise, how different would they be from Petas?

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Re: Are there beings becoming buddhas in deva realms?

Postby Abyss » Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:11 pm

salmon wrote:While it's difficult for the Devas to keep Uposatha Precepts, do they at least keep the minimum 5 precepts? I should think so right? Otherwise, how different would they be from Petas?

I think we have to remember that "deva loka" in general is the community of "the good guys". The generous and virtuous people go to heaven, i. e. beings who have a good behaviour and want to live in peace and harmony with each other. Maybe some of them lose their goodness over the course of time due to forgetfulness, strong desires and conceit, but the vast majority of them are certainly "good people". If one reads the suttas, the Buddha seems to have more followers amongst the devas than amongst humans.

MN 147 wrote:That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, Ven. Rahula delighted in the Blessed One's words. And while this explanation was being given, Ven. Rahula's mind, through no clinging (not being sustained), was fully released from fermentations. And to those many thousands of devas there arose the dustless, stainless Dhamma eye: "Whatever is subject to origination is all subject to cessation."

To regard the majority of devas as "party animals", who have more trouble to understand the Dhamma than humans, is certainly not in accord with the suttas.
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Re: Are there beings becoming buddhas in deva realms?

Postby Sekha » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:24 pm

cooran wrote:This may be of interest:


interesting indeed. thanx
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http://www.buddha-vacana.org

As a sweet-smelling and beautiful lotus flower may grow upon a heap of rubbish thrown on the highway, so also, out of the rubbish heap of beings may appear a disciple of the Buddha, who with his wisdom, shines resplendent in wisdom. -/ Dhp 58-59
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Re: Are there beings becoming buddhas in deva realms?

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:45 pm

Kenshou wrote:I can't speak for the original poster, but I interpreted his question as are there beings in the Deva realms becoming Arahants/ "liberated/awakened" or whatever term you might pick. Can not any awakened being be called a Buddha, in the sense of "enlightened one"? This distinguishing a Buddha from a Sammásambuddha. I seem to recall quite a few instances in the canon where Devas etc. attain liberation upon hearing a teaching, but I could be mistaken.

If Op did did indeed mean Sammasambuddha, then consider this post null and void.


Yes, a good similar question and point. The deva realms do include Arahants. The Pure Abodes are inhabited by anagamis (non-returners) who all attain enlightenment there in that deva / heavenly realm.

The Pure Abodes are the only realms or places that a samma-sam-buddha has never been to as an inhabitant. This is because there is no rebirth from that realm. Samma-sam-buddhas are needed in the human realm.
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Re: Are there beings becoming buddhas in deva realms?

Postby Sekha » Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:38 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Prior to their final existence, when the Bodhisattas attain all four stages of the Noble Path and became Buddhas and Arahants, the Bodhisattas reside in the Tusita deva realm.


and what is the reason for that?
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org

As a sweet-smelling and beautiful lotus flower may grow upon a heap of rubbish thrown on the highway, so also, out of the rubbish heap of beings may appear a disciple of the Buddha, who with his wisdom, shines resplendent in wisdom. -/ Dhp 58-59
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Re: Are there beings becoming buddhas in deva realms?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:14 pm

Dukkhanirodha wrote:and what is the reason for that?

Tusita sure beats the East End of London. ;)

Presumably the Bodhisattas are delighted that they are very soon going to attain the goal for which they have striven for many aeons.
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