When does real mindfulness start?

[heraclito27]

What is the cause that "trying to be mindful" stop and "real mindfulness" start?
What is the difference between these two mental activities?

[bodom]

There is a passage in Analayo's Satipatthana commentary that states that arahants never lose mindfulness. I cant remember what page its on or what sutta is referred to. So i believe until then no one will be able to maintain perfect mindfulness until arahantship is attained.

[Goofaholix]

What is the cause that "trying to be mindful" stop and "real mindfulness" start?
What is the difference between these two mental activities?

In my experience it's a gradual shift that takes place over a number of years, but as bodom says it probably doesn't become 100% until you're enlightened. Think of a skateboard or scooter, at first you push and push until you gain enough momentum and then it's free and easy to travel along, but then from time to time you need to push some more to maintain your momentum.

[bodom]

What is the cause that "trying to be mindful" stop and "real mindfulness" start?
What is the difference between these two mental activities?

In my experience it's a gradual shift that takes place over a number of years, but as bodom says it probably doesn't become 100% until you're enlightened. Think of a skateboard or scooter, at first you push and push until you gain enough momentum and then it's free and easy to travel along, but then from time to time you need to push some more to maintain your momentum.

Nice analogy. I like that.

[heraclito27]

Ok, thank you.

[jcsuperstar]

What is the cause that "trying to be mindful" stop and "real mindfulness" start?
What is the difference between these two mental activities?

define "real" mindfulness.
once one learns how to be mindful it should start. a lot of the problem is learning not directly from a teacher but from books or the Internet. some times 50 different teachers will say the same thing 50 different ways and maybe one of them will say it in a way where you "get it" this is why interaction with a teacher is so important.

[meindzai]

define "real" mindfulness.

Unbroken (constant) mindfulness of the four foundations/frames of reference, IMO.

-M

[bodom]

define "real" mindfulness.

Unbroken (constant) mindfulness of the four foundations/frames of reference, IMO.

-M

I agree. There is only one type of mindfulness to be developed but there are different types of objects to be mindful of.

[Goofaholix]

I agree. There is only one type of mindfulness to be developed but there are different types of objects to be mindful of.

The objects, in the way mindfulness is taught, are just a tool. Mindfulness is a quality of mind, a quality of remembering to be aware, whatever objects may arise and pass away it doesn't matter the aim is for that quality of mind to be consistent.

[jcsuperstar]

define "real" mindfulness.

Unbroken (constant) mindfulness of the four foundations/frames of reference, IMO.

-M

um i guess when one is an arahant then?

[meindzai]

define "real" mindfulness.

Unbroken (constant) mindfulness of the four foundations/frames of reference, IMO.

-M

um i guess when one is an arahant then?

Probably. Is it possible to have constant and unbroken mindfulness of the four foundations and still not have any wisdom?

-M

[jcsuperstar]

well according to abhidhamma one cant have akusala citta while maintaining mindfulness right? so to have constant mindfulness would mean to have nothing but kusala cittas which would mean the ending of greed, hatred and delusion , therefore that would imply wisdom right?

[meindzai]

well according to abhidhamma one cant have akusala citta while maintaining mindfulness right? so to have constant mindfulness would mean to have nothing but kusala cittas which would mean the ending of greed, hatred and delusion , therefore that would imply wisdom right?

I can't find any reason to disagree with that.

-M