A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
The irony is Bubba, that despite my heavy handed joke of a few weeks back I am a veggie. But its threads like this that makes me want to break the habit of a the last 15 or so years. I am reminded of the late Johm Mortimer the Brit author of the Rumple Of The Bailey novels. Because of his distaste for the anti smoking lobby in the UK he, who had never smoked in his life, took it up in his 80's . He confessed to a friend that he didnt enjoy it much but felt it had to be done.
I saw recently that another of the vegans who would tie up all and every thread on E Sangha ( a name which I have no doubt would ring all sorts of Spiny bells for you ) with their sole topic of interest is now a mod on another Buddhist website. A while back I was asked to join that website, but when I saw that particular name I decided against. Buddha save us from what the late Bernard Levin dubbed SIFS. Single Issue Fanatics.
Faced with vegan intolerance and self righteousness I am tempted to order a Big Mac.
All joking apart I think vegan militancy is pretty much self defeating.
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Peter, I think you ferreted out the root of the matter.
I'm going to lay out a few facts, then retire, as even though I've been a diligent practitioner of the dhamma for over 27 years( and even studied for the robe for two years at one point) I've sensed my input isn't particularly welcome here, especially by administrators. I can take a hint. However, I was the sole Moderator of the e-sangha Vegetarian Forum for two years, then one of two Mods for the remainder of e-sangha's existence, so let me weigh in here, then I'll retreat back into my cave.
Discussions on the place of vegetarianism in dhamma practice always devolve into emotional arguments which inevitably lack logical cohesion, lack support from the dhamma, and end in chaotic ruins. We always had to shut them down. ESPECIALLY when Mr. Clueless Git was concerned. He always turned any discussion on any forum, into a shambles. I can honestly say we received more complaints about the Veg Forum than any other on e-sangha. Don't fall for this "I'm' not smart enough to follow complex arguments" persona. This man is a master manipulator. He can keep these arguments going for weeks, and tie you in knots of frustration, and turn your own words against you. In my opinion, he is not a follow of the Buddha. He uses the dhamma to support his vegetarian agenda, rather than the abstention from eating meat as a pillar of his Buddhist practice. We had several people like this on e-sangha, and they kept the place up in arms all the time. Some say this is the practice of "tough love" to wake people up to the cruelty of eating meat. I say nonsense.
It's bullying and manipulation. I discuss vegetarianism too. I also discuss all aspects of Dhamma. Get me started on Abhidhamma and I won't shut up.
If you Admins want my advice (totally unsolicited of course) I would shut this thread down and not encourage another one like it. If you let it run its course it will only get worse. This is my prediction, and I am no Nostradamus. Just a battle-scarred veteran of too many Vegetarian Wars from e-sangha.
With much respect,
Well ... !!!
You will have to forgive me if I sniff a little of the old "if you can't attack the argument then attack the man" going on here!
I'm not hurt though, nor offended (much ...
) and once more I am going to apologise for not skirting around inconvenient facts that I know full well, if not skirted around, very often cause offence.
Oh, and thank you for at least suggesting that I may be a master of something
Bubba, btw ...
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Due to this topic being massively rail-roaded and no longer in any way reflecting "General Theravada discussion", it is going to be closed.
Arguments aligning meat-eating with a lack of compassion completely ignore the (as accepted by Theravada) facts that:
1. The Buddha and his Sangha ate meat
2. The Buddha was far more compassionate than any putthujana vegetarian
3. The Buddha explicitly rejected Devadatta's (a putthujana) demands that the Sangha become vegetarian
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)'We should not congratulate someone on the success of their misdeeds, but on the contrary should endeavour to advise him or her to lead a more skilful and wholesome life. If such advice is ignored then we can only give up and let go' - Phra PanyapatipoDharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum)
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