The Arahant and the other Simsapa leaves

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The Arahant and the other Simsapa leaves

Postby Stephen K » Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:20 pm

A question related to SN 56.31.

When one becomes an arahant, does he come to know "the other leaves" of the forest that the Buddha did not teach about?
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Re: The Arahant and the other Simsapa leaves

Postby Sekha » Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:20 pm

I'm not skilled enough to answer precisely, but it seems some can grasp quite a bunch (Sariputta and Mogallana), while others can grasp less. Those who were able to grasp much in this part of eon have already made their way out.
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As a sweet-smelling and beautiful lotus flower may grow upon a heap of rubbish thrown on the highway, so also, out of the rubbish heap of beings may appear a disciple of the Buddha, who with his wisdom, shines resplendent in wisdom. -/ Dhp 58-59
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Re: The Arahant and the other Simsapa leaves

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:39 pm

Greetings Stefan,

As I understand it, the Buddha went down a lot of proverbial "highways and byways" before he discovered the truth of the Dhamma. During that process of exploration and attempting to find an escape from samsara, he would have learned a lot of particularly interesting things... but not things that necessarily helped him with his escape. Whether an arahant comes to know these additional (superfluous?) things too depends on whether they go through these indirect detours on their way to arahantship, or whether they develop these skills and knowledges afterwards.

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Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


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One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: The Arahant and the other Simsapa leaves

Postby Stephen K » Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:21 am

Hi Retro,

I thought the Buddha discovered all these additional things the moment he attained Enlightenment. But I might be wrong.

:smile:
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Re: The Arahant and the other Simsapa leaves

Postby Sekha » Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:58 am

Stefan wrote:Hi Retro,

I thought the Buddha discovered all these additional things the moment he attained Enlightenment. But I might be wrong.

:smile:


I think he discovered a part of it before, but most of it right before or after his enlightenment :)
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org

As a sweet-smelling and beautiful lotus flower may grow upon a heap of rubbish thrown on the highway, so also, out of the rubbish heap of beings may appear a disciple of the Buddha, who with his wisdom, shines resplendent in wisdom. -/ Dhp 58-59
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Re: The Arahant and the other Simsapa leaves

Postby fig tree » Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:22 am

Stefan wrote:I thought the Buddha discovered all these additional things the moment he attained Enlightenment.

Certain kinds of knowledge are supposed to have come with remembering previous existences, which in a sense would be a combination of the two. This is one of the superknowledges that other arahants have had to varying degrees.

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Re: The Arahant and the other Simsapa leaves

Postby chownah » Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:04 pm

I guess the Buddha knew how to fry eggs but of course he didn't teach that..... Why must we think that all the other leaves are such big deals....some or maybe even most are quite mundane....I guess.
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Re: The Arahant and the other Simsapa leaves

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:22 pm

Greetings Chownah,

chownah wrote:I guess the Buddha knew how to fry eggs but of course he didn't teach that..... Why must we think that all the other leaves are such big deals....some or maybe even most are quite mundane....I guess.

You may well have guessed correctly... but even if not, it doesn't matter.

The Buddha was clear on his reasons for teaching the things he taught, and likewise, for not teaching what he did not teach.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
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