Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum

clw_uk wrote:One problem I have though with the notion of Devas etc being purely psychological is the distinct presenation of them as actual living beings within the Suttas. I can see how they can be seen as both however.

A deva is a human being. However, like the Buddha, Mogallana and Devadata, some devas have some supernormal powers.

However, some of these devas with supernormal powers do not believe in the Buddha-Dhamma.

Like Christian angels, they believe in Godliness rather than vipassana truth.

Thus an angel prefers to teach humanity, for example, about eternal life with Jesus rather than the doctrine of impermanence.

They do this because they believe it is a more effective way to remedy suffering for those human beings.

A deva is a human being.

Since when?

tiltbillings wrote:Since when?

Since always.

Element wrote:

clw_uk wrote:One problem I have though with the notion of Devas etc being purely psychological is the distinct presenation of them as actual living beings within the Suttas. I can see how they can be seen as both however.

A deva is a human being. However, like the Buddha, Mogallana and Devadata, some devas have some supernormal powers.

However, some of these devas with supernormal powers do not believe in the Buddha-Dhamma.

Like Christian angels, they believe in Godliness rather than vipassana truth.

Thus an angel prefers to teach humanity, for example, about eternal life with Jesus rather than the doctrine of impermanence.

They do this because they believe it is a more effective way to remedy suffering for those human beings.

Do you have any support for this?

ive read zen texts that explain the devas and ghosts etc in these sort of ways, for example one who is controled by their emotions, cravings etc is an animal since animals are controled similarily by instincts, one who hates themself is a preta and so on

so its not just a buddhadasa thing,

Element: A deva is a human being.

Element wrote:

tiltbillings wrote:Since when?

Since always.

Okay, and your textual source for claiming that devas are human beings is?

Ben wrote:Do you have any support for this?

Do you have any support for the contrary?

Have you met human beings like the Buddha with supernormal power who can communicate by mind?

Have you met non-human beings communcating with bhikkhus?

Element wrote:

Ben wrote:Do you have any support for this?

Do you have any support for the contrary?

Have you met human beings like the Buddha with supernormal power who can communicate by mind?

Have you met non-human beings communcating with bhikkhus?

That really is not an answer. You have claimed that devas are human beings. It is up to you to support your claim.

tiltbillings wrote:Okay, and your textual source for claiming that devas are human beings is?

This is not a Classical Theravada thread.

However, there is the text when just after Buddha was awakened, he was asked: "Are you are deva, are you a gandhabba, etc,?"

Clearly the Buddha was not flying in the sky with wings when he was asked these questions. He was simply walking with serenity and radiance.

Further, the Buddha answered: "I am awake".

Funny how Westerners come to Buddhism ('religion of awakened wisdom') but have still not overcome their superstitions picked up from the Bible, the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, watching alien science fiction movies, etc.

To be a sotapanna, one must at least show some modicum of rational intelligence and abandon superstition.

tiltbillings wrote:That really is not an answer. You have claimed that devas are human beings. It is up to you to support your claim.

Buddha said his teaching is "sanditiko..... paccatum veditabo vinnuhi".

My answer is an answer.

However, your response is bullying harrassment.

Hi Element,

Element wrote:

tiltbillings wrote:That really is not an answer. You have claimed that devas are human beings. It is up to you to support your claim.

Buddha said his teaching is "sanditiko..... paccatum veditabo vinnuhi".

My answer is an answer.

So, your answer is: "Trust me, I'm Element?".

Mike

This is not a Classical Theravada thread.

However, there is the text when just after Buddha was awakened, he was asked: "Are you are deva, are you a gandhabba, etc,?"

Clearly the Buddha was not flying in the sky with wings when he was asked these questions. He was simply walking with serenity and radiance.

Further, the Buddha answered: "I am awake".

No, this is not a the Classical Forum, but that does not mean you can just make things up and call it the Buddha's teaching. As for the text, actually quote the whole text.

tiltbillings wrote:That really is not an answer. You have claimed that devas are human beings. It is up to you to support your claim.

Similarly, in the Vinaya and in the suttas, there is the phrase 'animal talk'.

This does not refer to communicating with non human beings.

tiltbillings wrote:No, this is not a the Classical Forum, but that does not mean you can just make things up and call it the Buddha's teaching.

Are you inferring Buddhadasa was making things up? Are you inferring you know better than him?

If you are interested in the thread, links were posted. But if you are not, it appears you are simply "trolling".

Greetings Element,

I'm trying to open...

http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books ... udents.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

... so we can actually have a meaningful discussion on what venerable Buddhadasa said... however, the link doesn't seem to be responding. (maybe it's a large file and there's network isses?)

Do you have an alternative URL we could download it from, or could you paste the text relevant to question 47.

Metta,
Retro.