Patisambhidamagga

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Patisambhidamagga

Postby jcsuperstar » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:43 pm

Path of Discrimination Nanamoli Bhikkhu

A translation of the Patisambhidamagga, a practical guide to the Buddhist way of life and philosophy. The Path of Discrimination, or comprehension, is attributed to Sariputta and it tries to show exactly how understanding of reality takes place in a practical sense, not simply in theory.

anyone have this or read this? i see it referenced a lot and have been thinking about obtaining it. is it an archaic translation or is it easy to read.

metta
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สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Patisambhidamagga

Postby Alex123 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:05 pm

I really like Ptsm, though only parts of it (those that I can understand).

The one I have is, 2002 edition, it is hard to read. But occasionally there are some very interesting things said.
I was not; I was; I am not; I do not care."
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Re: Patisambhidamagga

Postby David N. Snyder » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:28 pm

I have read it, but it was many years ago. I agree with what Alex said. If I recall correctly, it reminded me a lot of the Abhidhamma and seemed to be similar to Abhidhammic writings.
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Re: Patisambhidamagga

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:56 am

jcsuperstar wrote:Path of Discrimination Nanamoli Bhikkhu

A translation of the Patisambhidamagga, a practical guide to the Buddhist way of life and philosophy. The Path of Discrimination, or comprehension, is attributed to Sariputta and it tries to show exactly how understanding of reality takes place in a practical sense, not simply in theory.

anyone have this or read this? i see it referenced a lot and have been thinking about obtaining it. is it an archaic translation or is it easy to read.

metta
jc
It was essentially and initial draft by Ven Nanamoli; not a final published draft. It is not easy to read or use, and after seeing Vewn Dhammanado and Kare's tran;lations of bits of it, it really does need to be redone with considerable care. There is a lot in it that is of considerable in interest.

The PTS version, as we have it, is better than nothing, but will take some work. Hopefully you can get lucky and get a used copy.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Patisambhidamagga

Postby Alex123 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:26 am

If anyone is interested I can post some excerpts that I found to be more interesting.


Some cut outs on virtue that I've made long ago

What is virtue? There is virtue as volition, virtue as consciousness concomitant, virtue as restraint, virtue as non-transgression. There are three kinds of virtue (habit); profitable virtue(habit), unprofitable virtue(habit), indeterminate virtue(habit).

From what does virtue originate? Profitable virtue(habit) originates from profitable mind, unprofitable virtue(habit) originates from unprofitable mind, indeterminate virtue(habit) originates from indeterminate mind.

With how many phenomena (dhamma) does virtue combine?
Virtue combines with restraint, virtue combines with non-transgression, virtue combines with the volition produced about such a phenomenon as restraint or non-transgression.
In the case of killing living beings virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression. In the case of taking what is not given, virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression. In the case of sexual misconduct, virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression. In the case of false speech, virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression. In the case of malicious speech, virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression. In the case of harsh speech, virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression. In the case of gossip, virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression. In the event of covetousness, virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression. In the case of ill-will, virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression. In the case of wrong view virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.

Through renunciation in the case of zeal(chandha) for sensual-desires, virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression. Through non ill-will in the case of ill-will, virtue is in the sense of its restraint, and in the sense of its non-transgression. Through perception of light in the case of stiffness and torpor virtue is in the sense of its restraint, and in the sense of its non-transgression. Through non-distraction in the case of agitation virtue is in the sense of its restraint, and in the sense of its non-transgression. Through investigation-of-ideas in the case of uncertainty virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.

Through knowledge in the case of ignorance virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression. Through gladness in the case of boredom virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.

Through the first Jhāna in the case of the hindrances virtue is in the sense of their restraint, virtue is in the sense of their non-transgression. Through the second Jhāna in the case of applied thought and sustained thought virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression. Through the third Jhāna in the case of happiness virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.
Through the fourth Jhāna in the case of pleasure and pain virtue is in the sense of their restraint, virtue is in the sense of their non-transgression.

Through the attainment of the base consisting of boundless space in the case of perception of materiality, perceptions of resistance and perceptions of variety virtue is in the sense of their restraint, virtue is in the sense of their non-transgression.
Through the attainment of the base consisting of boundless consciousness in the case of perception of the base consisting of boundless space virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.
Through the attainment of the base consisting of nothingness in the case of perception of the base consisting of boundless consciousness virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression. Through the attainment of the base consisting of neither perception nor non-perception in the case of perception of the base consisting of nothingness virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.

Through contemplation of impermanence in the case of perception of permanence virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.
Through contemplation of pain in the case of perception of pleasure virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.
Through contemplation of not self in the case of perception of self virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.
Through contemplation of dispassion in the case of delighting virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.
Through contemplation of fading away of greed in the case of greed virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.
Through contemplation of cessation in the case of arising virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.
Through contemplation of renunciation in the case of grasping virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.
Through contemplation of destruction in the case of perception of compactness virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.
Through contemplation of fall in the case of accumulation virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.
Through contemplation of change in the case of perception of lastingness virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.
Through contemplation of signless in the case of the sign [of formations] virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.
Through contemplation of the desireless in the case of desire virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.
Through contemplation of voidness in the case of misinterpretation virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.

Through insight into ideas which is the higher understanding in the case of misinterpretation due to greed, virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.
Through correct knowledge and seeing in the case of misinterpretation due to confusion virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.

Through contemplation of danger in the case of misinterpretation due to reliance on formations, virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.

Through contemplation of reflection in the case of non-reflection, virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.

Through contemplation of turning away in the case of misinterpretation due to bondage virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.

Through the stream-entry path in the case of the defilements coefficient with wrong view, virtue is in the sense of their restraint, virtue is in the sense of their non-transgression.

Through the once-return path in the case of gross defilements, virtue is in the sense of their restraint, virtue is in the sense of their non-transgression.

Through the non-return path in the case of secondary defilements, virtue is in the sense of their restraint, virtue is in the sense of their non-transgression.
Through the Arahant path in the case of all defilements virtue is in the sense of its restraint, virtue is in the sense of its non-transgression.

Five kinds of virtue: virtue consisting in limited purification, virtue consisting in unlimited purification, virtue consisting in perfected purification, virtue consisting in non misapprehended(parāmāsa = misapprehended, perverted) purification, virtue consisting in tranquillized purification.

What is 'virtue consisting in limited purification'? That of the training precepts for those not fully admitted to the Order of monks: such is virtue consisting in limited purification.

What is 'virtue consisting in unlimited purification'? That of the training precepts for those fully admitted to the Order of monks: such is virtue consisting in unlimited purification.

What is 'virtue consisting in perfected purification'? That of good worldlings devoted to profitable qualities, who are perfecting the course that ends in traineeship, regardless of the physical body and life, having given up attachment to life: such is virtue consisting in perfected purification.

What is 'virtue consisting in non misapprehended purification'? That of the seven kinds of trainer: such is virtue consisting in non misapprehended purification.

What is 'virtue consisting in tranquillized purification'? [Tranquillized(passaddha) means particularly cessation of effort to obtain when the aim has been obtained.] That of the Perfect One's disciples with cankers exhausted, of Undeclared Enlightened Ones (Pacceka Buddhas), of Perfect One accomplished and fully awakened: such is virtue consisting in tranquillized purification.

There is virtue that has a limit and virtue that has no limit.

Herein what is the virtue that has a limit? There is virtue that has gain as its limit, there is virtue that has fame as its limit, there is virtue that has relatives as its limit, there is virtue that has limbs as its limit, there is virtue that has life as its limit.

What is virtue that has gain as its limit? Here someone with gain as cause, with gain as condition, with gain as reason, transgresses a training precept as undertaken: such virtue has gain as its limit.

What is virtue that has fame as its limit? Here someone with fame as cause, with fame as condition, with fame as reason, transgresses a training precept as undertaken: such virtue has fame as its limit.

What is virtue that has relatives as its limit? Here someone with relatives as cause, with relatives as condition, with relatives as reason, transgresses a training precept as undertaken: such virtue has relatives as its limit.


What is virtue that has limbs as its limit? Here someone with limbs as cause, with limbs as condition, with limbs as reason, transgresses a training precept as undertaken: such virtue has limbs as its limit.

What is virtue that has life as its limit? Here someone with life as cause, with life as condition, with life as reason, transgresses a training precept as undertaken: such virtue has gain as its limit.

Such kinds of virtue are torn, rent, blotched, mottled, they are not liberating, not commended by the wise; they are misapprehended(parāmāsa), not conducive to concentration, not a basis for non-remorse, not a basis for gladness(pāmojja), not a basis for happiness(piiti), not a basis for tranquility(passaddhi), not a basis for bliss(sukha), not a basis for concentration(samadhi), not a basis for correct knowledge and seeing; they do not lead to complete dispassion(nibbidā), to fading of greed(virāga), to cessation(nirodha), to peace (upasama), to direct knowledge, to enlightenment, to nibbana: such virtue has a limit.
...
Five Kinds of Virtue: In the case of killing living things abandoning is virtue, abstention is virtue, volition is virtue, restraint is virtue, non-transgression is virtue. Such virtues lead to non-remorse mind, to gladness, to happiness, to tranquility, to joy, to repetition, to development, to making much of, to embellishment, to the requisite for concentration, to the equipment of concentration, to perfection, to complete dispassion, to fading away of greed, to cessation, to peace, to direct knowledge, to enlightenment, to nibbana: the purification consisting in restraint in such virtues is the higher virtue. Mind established in the purification consisting in restraint does not become distracted; the purification consisting in non-distraction is the higher mentality. He sees the purification consisting in restraint correctly, and he sees the purification in non-distraction correctly; the purification consisting in seeing is the higher wisdom. The meaning of restraint therein is training in the higher virtue, the meaning of non-distraction therein is training in higher mentality, the meaning of seeing therein is training in the higher wisdom.



With metta,


Alex
I was not; I was; I am not; I do not care."
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Re: Patisambhidamagga

Postby char101 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:42 pm

jcsuperstar wrote:Path of Discrimination Nanamoli Bhikkhu

A translation of the Patisambhidamagga, a practical guide to the Buddhist way of life and philosophy. The Path of Discrimination, or comprehension, is attributed to Sariputta and it tries to show exactly how understanding of reality takes place in a practical sense, not simply in theory.

anyone have this or read this? i see it referenced a lot and have been thinking about obtaining it. is it an archaic translation or is it easy to read.

metta
jc


As I remember it is more or less like the abhidhammatasangaha, in writing style and content. It is concise like the dhammasangani but touches other things which are more practice-related. For example the famous saw simile of breath meditation

What differentiates someone who is successful and who is not is knowing three things, our breath, in breath, and the contact are of the air and the skin, just like when someone is sawing a wood, he knows when the saw goes forward, backward, but his attention is directed to the contact point of the saw with the wood.
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Re: Patisambhidamagga

Postby Kare » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:09 pm

char101 wrote:
jcsuperstar wrote:Path of Discrimination Nanamoli Bhikkhu

A translation of the Patisambhidamagga, a practical guide to the Buddhist way of life and philosophy. The Path of Discrimination, or comprehension, is attributed to Sariputta and it tries to show exactly how understanding of reality takes place in a practical sense, not simply in theory.

anyone have this or read this? i see it referenced a lot and have been thinking about obtaining it. is it an archaic translation or is it easy to read.

metta
jc


As I remember it is more or less like the abhidhammatasangaha, in writing style and content. It is concise like the dhammasangani but touches other things which are more practice-related. For example the famous saw simile of breath meditation

What differentiates someone who is successful and who is not is knowing three things, our breath, in breath, and the contact are of the air and the skin, just like when someone is sawing a wood, he knows when the saw goes forward, backward, but his attention is directed to the contact point of the saw with the wood.


It is not so condensed as the Abhidhammatthasangaha, it has much more detailed explanations. The commentary is quite good and helpful at difficult points. I may have mentioned it before - but I would like to recommende the edition of the Patisambhidhamagga, with commentary and subcommentary, which is published by the Bhumibalobhikkhu Foundation, Bangkok (it is situated at the Wat Saket). There is a consistent paragraph numbering through text and commentaries, and commented words are underlined, so that it is easy to use the commentaries together with the Patisambhidamagga text.
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Re: Patisambhidamagga

Postby jcsuperstar » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:21 am

would i be able to pick up said edition at wat saket?
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Patisambhidamagga

Postby Kare » Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:14 am

jcsuperstar wrote:would i be able to pick up said edition at wat saket?


Yes, I suppose so. The institute has an office there where all their publications are available. I have visited them a couple of times, the last time I was there was about two years ago - so I hope they are there still. The books are in Pali language, Thai script. They also publish the same books in Thai translation, so make sure which version you get. They also have published the Visuddhimagga with commentary, some abhidhamma books and more. I find their publications very useful, due to the consistent paragraph numbering that I mentioned. So if you go there, please convey thanks and respect from Norway!
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