sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Postby Virgo » Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:42 pm

Sati is a conditioned reality that simply arises and fallls away. It is without a controller or an owner. Like all dhammas it is not-self.

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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Postby m0rl0ck » Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:12 pm

Watching my mind.
Joshu was asked,
"When a man comes to you with nothing,
what would you say to him ?"
Joshu replied, "Throw it away!"
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Postby smokey » Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:23 pm

Mindfulness are thoughts are at a non-conceptual, single-pointed and subtle level of deep, penetrative and concentrated awareness of the object of mindfulness.
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Postby Mukunda » Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:53 pm

PeterB wrote:Conversely, its easy to think we are practising something, but in fact we unwittingly do not share the consensus view of what it is we are doing. Particular in the mini Wat of our own shrine place.


But if we really are practicing, chances are we'll eventually catch our error. And just because a view has a consensus, doesn't mean it's correct. Practice that is limited to "the mini Wat of our own shrine" seldom ripens, but produces small, hard green fruit that has little value.
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Postby m0rl0ck » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:39 pm

smokey wrote:Mindfulness are thoughts are at a non-conceptual, single-pointed and subtle level of deep, penetrative and concentrated awareness of the object of mindfulness.


What does that mean?
Joshu was asked,
"When a man comes to you with nothing,
what would you say to him ?"
Joshu replied, "Throw it away!"
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:17 pm

smokey wrote:Mindfulness are thoughts are at a non-conceptual, single-pointed and subtle level of deep, penetrative and concentrated awareness of the object of mindfulness.


Hi Smokey,
I am having some trouble understanding the first few words myself. should there be a 'THAT' before the second 'are'?
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
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"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Postby smokey » Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:25 pm

m0rl0ck wrote:
smokey wrote:Mindfulness are thoughts are at a non-conceptual, single-pointed and subtle level of deep, penetrative and concentrated awareness of the object of mindfulness.


What does that mean?


I meant to say: "Mindfulness are thoughts that are at a non-conceptual, single-pointed and subtle level of deep, penetrative and concentrated awareness of the object of mindfulness."

It means that when one is mindful of an object, one's thoughts are at non-conceptual (without form), single-pointed (concentrated at one object at a time) and subtle (those are very subtle thoughts, that is, they are not gross) level of deep, penetrative (these type of thoughts are able to penetrate into deeper awareness and one can gain insight knowledges) and concentrated awareness of the object of mindfulness.
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Postby smokey » Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:26 pm

I apologize for any misunderstandings.
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:02 pm

No Worries, I do it all the time!

and thanks
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Postby smokey » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:56 pm

Manapa wrote:No Worries, I do it all the time!

and thanks


You are most welcome Manapa :toast:
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:02 am

Greetings,

Virgo wrote:Sati is a conditioned reality that simply arises and fallls away. It is without a controller or an owner. Like all dhammas it is not-self.


A 'conditioned reality' that is to be developed and sustained through the deliberate cultivation of wholesome conditions, however

"Suppose, monks, that a large crowd of people comes thronging together, saying, 'The beauty queen! The beauty queen!' And suppose that the beauty queen is highly accomplished at singing & dancing, so that an even greater crowd comes thronging, saying, 'The beauty queen is singing! The beauty queen is dancing!' Then a man comes along, desiring life & shrinking from death, desiring pleasure & abhorring pain. They say to him, 'Now look here, mister. You must take this bowl filled to the brim with oil and carry it on your head in between the great crowd & the beauty queen. A man with a raised sword will follow right behind you, and wherever you spill even a drop of oil, right there will he cut off your head.' Now what do you think, monks: Will that man, not paying attention to the bowl of oil, let himself get distracted outside?"

"No, lord."

"I have given you this parable to convey a meaning. The meaning is this: The bowl filled to the brim with oil stands for mindfulness immersed in the body. Thus you should train yourselves: 'We will develop mindfulness immersed in the body. We will pursue it, hand it the reins and take it as a basis, give it a grounding, steady it, consolidate it, and undertake it well.' That is how you should train yourselves."


From SN 47.20 - http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

As it is with mindfulness of the body, so it is with mindfulness of other subject matter.

A one sentence explanation of sati... A sustained awareness of what arises, changes and passes away

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Postby m0rl0ck » Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:41 am

I do like this tho, leaves nothing to the imagination and no room for interpretation:
http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~beatrice/bud ... ntion.html

Attention

There's an old Zen story: a student said to Master Ichu, 'Please write for me something of great wisdom.'

Master Ichu picked up his brush and wrote one word: 'Attention.'

The student said, 'Is that all?'

The master wrote, 'Attention. Attention.'

The student became irritable. 'That doesn't seem profound or subtle to me.'

In response, Master Ichu wrote simply, 'Attention. Attention. Attention.'

In frustration, the student demanded, 'What does this word attention mean?'

Master Ichu replied, 'Attention means attention.'

Source: Charlotte Joko Beck. 1993. Nothing special: Living Zen. New York: HarperCollins. 168.
Joshu was asked,
"When a man comes to you with nothing,
what would you say to him ?"
Joshu replied, "Throw it away!"
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Postby Michael_S » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:13 pm

in one word or phrase What is Mindfulness/sati for you?


This, That, Now
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Postby PeterB » Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:01 pm

When was that then ?
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Postby alan » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:26 pm

We've all heard that Zen story a million times. It's meaningless.
What you do with your attention--now that is worth discussing.
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Postby m0rl0ck » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:42 pm

alan wrote:We've all heard that Zen story a million times. It's meaningless.
What you do with your attention--now that is worth discussing.



Yes i agree, just "attention" doesnt have nearly enough polysyllabic words or deep concepts. Its much too simple to really mean anything of value. Forgive me, i dont know what i was thinking.

Edit: in addition, the fact that the story has survived all this time is probably just chance. The fact that a teacher the caliber of charlotte joko beck included it in her book doenst mean anything either, especially in the face of the judgement of some guy on an internet forum. Im going to immediately set out to forget the entire anedote, Thank you again for bringing me to my senses. :bow:
Joshu was asked,
"When a man comes to you with nothing,
what would you say to him ?"
Joshu replied, "Throw it away!"
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Postby PeterB » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:53 pm

m0rl0ck wrote:I do like this tho, leaves nothing to the imagination and no room for interpretation:
http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~beatrice/bud ... ntion.html

Attention

There's an old Zen story: a student said to Master Ichu, 'Please write for me something of great wisdom.'

Master Ichu picked up his brush and wrote one word: 'Attention.'

The student said, 'Is that all?'

The master wrote, 'Attention. Attention.'

The student became irritable. 'That doesn't seem profound or subtle to me.'

In response, Master Ichu wrote simply, 'Attention. Attention. Attention.'

In frustration, the student demanded, 'What does this word attention mean?'

Master Ichu replied, 'Attention means attention.'

Source: Charlotte Joko Beck. 1993. Nothing special: Living Zen. New York: HarperCollins. 168.

groannnn. :zzz:
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Postby m0rl0ck » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:56 pm

PeterB wrote:groannnn. :zzz:



:D yah familarity breeds contempt. and paying attention should be exciting, should it not? maybe even entertaining.
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what would you say to him ?"
Joshu replied, "Throw it away!"
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Postby PeterB » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:09 pm

This is the Modern THERAVADA forum Morlock.
Its part of the General Theravada discussion Forum.
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Postby alan » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:26 pm

We have heard it a million times because it is so easy to quote. It's been quoted so many times because it is so widely disseminated. It's meaningless because it says nothing of value. Don't agree? Put it to a test. A wild animal stalking prey is paying attention. Is she now a Buddhist?
Don't like that one? Ok, just pay attention. And then do something with it. Attention alone, my good friend, is not a Buddhist teaching. There is also a bit about Right Effort. If you can show otherwise, I'd love to hear about it.
--just some guy on the internet.
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