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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:32 pm
by m0rl0ck
Ok guys. My apologies, i didnt realize the concept of attention as expressed in the zen story above was foreign enough to the theravada concept of sati as to cause a problem. What do i know, im just a dumb zen guy :)

Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:34 pm
by PeterB
Apology accepted.

Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:36 pm
by PeterB
alan wrote:We have heard it a million times because it is so easy to quote. It's been quoted so many times because it is so widely disseminated. It's meaningless because it says nothing of value. Don't agree? Put it to a test. A wild animal stalking prey is paying attention. Is she now a Buddhist?
Don't like that one? Ok, just pay attention. And then do something with it. Attention alone, my good friend, is not a Buddhist teaching. There is also a bit about Right Effort. If you can show otherwise, I'd love to hear about it.
--just some guy on the internet.
and sila.

Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:55 pm
by alan
Apologize if I'm pointing out the obvious, but it's an 8-fold path. If the Buddha had meant to tell us that attention attention attention was the way to liberation, wouldn't he just call it a one-fold path?
I'm just a guy on the internet, don't have any caliber.

Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:55 pm
by Sobeh
retrofuturist wrote:A sustained awareness of what arises, changes and passes away
This summary definition of sati is in complete agreement with my recent reading of the Satipatthanasamyutta.
:heart:

Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:10 pm
by m0rl0ck
alan wrote:Apologize if I'm pointing out the obvious, but it's an 8-fold path. If the Buddha had meant to tell us that attention attention attention was the way to liberation, wouldn't he just call it a one-fold path?
I'm just a guy on the internet, don't have any caliber.
In fairness to the tradition, it follows the 8-fold path as well :)

Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:12 pm
by Cittasanto
m0rl0ck wrote:Ok guys. My apologies, i didnt realize the concept of attention as expressed in the zen story above was foreign enough to the theravada concept of sati as to cause a problem. What do i know, im just a dumb zen guy :)
Hi m0rl0ck,
There is nothing for you to appologise for!
in my understanding of this forum (which is why I placed this thread here) other schools expressions are NOT excluded from being appropriate, so long as they do not contradict the theravadan pov's, or ditract from the.

as I asked for personal understanding of what mindfulness is, poetic licence is more than allowed here and encouraged rather than some academic sutta quoting match.

I didn't put this in the personal experiance as I am not asking for personal experiance, or looking for any traditions pov, rather personal pov's which are or can aid others in understanding the varied Theravadin ideas of what Mindfulness is, which your quote meats the criteria of in my understanding.

your Zen quote may be used more times than whatever, as some have said, but it is sometimes these cliché things that we need to reflect on most.
BTW I have heard & read Theravadin teachers say X is simply X, it isn't just a zen thing :tongue: and thank-you for answering the OPQ

Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:46 pm
by adosa
Are snarky replies to others' contributions part of the practice? If so, I'm out.
:group:

adosa

Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:04 pm
by bodom
adosa wrote:Are snarky replies to others' contributions part of the practice? If so, I'm out.
:group:

adosa
Some here seem to think that they have the only true understanding of sati and its manifold meanings and applications and that they have the authority to put down another's personal interpretation of it. But they themselves cannot practice basic mindfulness of speech. What they are expressing are mere definition's of sati from the suttas and seem to lack any personal understanding of how to actually practice it.

:anjali:

Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:17 pm
by bodom
PeterB wrote:Apology accepted.
There should have been no need for an apology to begin with. Morlock is the one who deserves the apology.

:anjali:

Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:26 am
by BlackBird
bodom wrote:
adosa wrote:Are snarky replies to others' contributions part of the practice? If so, I'm out.
:group:

adosa
Some here seem to think they understand sati and its manifold meanings and that they have the authority to put down another's personal interpretation of it. But they themselves cannot practice basic mindfulness of speech.
Well said.

metta
Jack

Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:47 am
by retrofuturist
Greetings,

Fair enough, yes this is a Theravada forum, but I had enough trouble thinking of a definition of "mindfulness" that did not use the word "mindfulness" itself!

"Attention means attention" is useful to the extent that it restricts it to what it is without venturing into what it isn't (e.g. conceptual proliferation)

Anyone else have any understandings on sati to share?

:focus:

Metta,
Retro. :)

Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:04 am
by bodom
I strongly recommend reading the chapter on Sati in Analayo's Satipatthana commentary for an extensive in depth look at sati and its various meanings and uses within the tipitaka.

:anjali:

Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:23 am
by PeterB
bodom wrote:
PeterB wrote:Apology accepted.
There should have been no need for an apology to begin with. Morlock is the one who deserves the apology.

:anjali:
You missed my point entirely. I have to remember that we Brits use language in a way not always clear to others. It was a joke.
Of course he had nothing to apologise for.

But lets leave it there. Before a common language divides us further.. :smile:

The serious note within in my post was that for me at least, answering a question with a Zen anecdote raises more problems than it solves..not least it fires my cliche alarm.
Perhaps I have spent too long being utterly baffled on ZFI by a set of self referencing concepts that I had no access to :tongue:
But if it helps others then fine. It was only a point of view .....

Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:42 am
by PeterB
Sobeh wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:A sustained awareness of what arises, changes and passes away
This summary definition of sati is in complete agreement with my recent reading of the Satipatthanasamyutta.
:heart:
Its also in line with what I was taught.
That " sustained awareness" of course needs frequent renewal..