Place of plants in the order of beings

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Place of plants in the order of beings

Postby Sekha » Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:10 pm

Some rules of the patimmokkha are set to keep mindful of not harming plants. But how far are they from other beings in terms of potentiality for enlightenment? Do they have a mind? Is there transmigration for plants? Can they somehow switch to animal life? I guess we could find cases of living beings about which it is difficult to decide whether they belong to the animal or to the vegetal reign... what do you think?
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As a sweet-smelling and beautiful lotus flower may grow upon a heap of rubbish thrown on the highway, so also, out of the rubbish heap of beings may appear a disciple of the Buddha, who with his wisdom, shines resplendent in wisdom. -/ Dhp 58-59
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Re: Place of plants in the order of beings

Postby bodom » Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:25 pm

The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Place of plants in the order of beings

Postby Sekha » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:02 pm

:anjali:
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org

As a sweet-smelling and beautiful lotus flower may grow upon a heap of rubbish thrown on the highway, so also, out of the rubbish heap of beings may appear a disciple of the Buddha, who with his wisdom, shines resplendent in wisdom. -/ Dhp 58-59
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Re: Place of plants in the order of beings

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:32 pm

Greetings Dukkhanirodha ,

SN 23.2: Satta Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying near Savatthi at Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's monastery. Then Ven. Radha went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One: "'A being,' lord. 'A being,' it's said. To what extent is one said to be 'a being'?"

"Any desire, passion, delight, or craving for form, Radha: when one is caught up there, tied up there, one is said to be 'a being.'

"Any desire, passion, delight, or craving for feeling... perception... fabrications...

"Any desire, passion, delight, or craving for consciousness, Radha: when one is caught up there, tied up there, one is said to be 'a being.'

"Just as when boys or girls are playing with little sand castles: as long as they are not free from passion, desire, love, thirst, fever, & craving for those little sand castles, that's how long they have fun with those sand castles, enjoy them, treasure them, feel possessive of them. But when they become free from passion, desire, love, thirst, fever, & craving for those little sand castles, then they smash them, scatter them, demolish them with their hands or feet and make them unfit for play.

"In the same way, Radha, you too should smash, scatter, & demolish form, and make it unfit for play. Practice for the ending of craving for form.

"You should smash, scatter, & demolish feeling, and make it unfit for play. Practice for the ending of craving for feeling.

"You should smash, scatter, & demolish perception, and make it unfit for play. Practice for the ending of craving for perception.

"You should smash, scatter, & demolish fabrications, and make them unfit for play. Practice for the ending of craving for fabrications.

"You should smash, scatter, & demolish consciousness and make it unfit for play. Practice for the ending of craving for consciousness — for the ending of craving, Radha, is Unbinding."


Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
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Re: Place of plants in the order of beings

Postby Sekha » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:40 pm

thank you
:anjali:
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org

As a sweet-smelling and beautiful lotus flower may grow upon a heap of rubbish thrown on the highway, so also, out of the rubbish heap of beings may appear a disciple of the Buddha, who with his wisdom, shines resplendent in wisdom. -/ Dhp 58-59
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Re: Place of plants in the order of beings

Postby Clueless Git » Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:40 am

Dukkhanirodha wrote:I guess we could find cases of living beings about which it is difficult to decide whether they belong to the animal or to the vegetal reign... what do you think?

'Lo Dukkhanirodha :smile:

I think it is hard enough to avoid harming that which CLEARLY belongs to the animal domain to make worrying about fine divides quite irrelevant.

Actualy I would go a bit further ...

There is a potential danger in worrying about the fine divides. It can lead to a mindset which goes something along the lines of this:

1. We cannot be sure that stuff which we cannot avoid harming (killing bacteria as we bathe, etc) does not belong in the animal domain.

ergo ..

2. There is no 'real' difference twix taking a bath and slaughtering a herd of cows.
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Re: Place of plants in the order of beings

Postby Sekha » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:50 am

I understand, but the point for me was rather to know whether a particular being has a chance to become enlightened some time in the future or not.
:anjali:
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org

As a sweet-smelling and beautiful lotus flower may grow upon a heap of rubbish thrown on the highway, so also, out of the rubbish heap of beings may appear a disciple of the Buddha, who with his wisdom, shines resplendent in wisdom. -/ Dhp 58-59
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Re: Place of plants in the order of beings

Postby chownah » Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:59 pm

Could it be possible that the Buddha prohibits monks from harming plant because having monks going around damaging plants (some of which were planted and tended even though it might not be obvious to a monk) would be a nuisance to a person or community and in general set a bad example for everyone in general and have nothing to do with plants having a potential to do anything?
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Re: Place of plants in the order of beings

Postby Stuart » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:28 pm

Dukkhanirodha wrote:I understand, but the point for me was rather to know whether a particular being has a chance to become enlightened some time in the future or not.
:anjali:


Hi Dukkhanirodha :anjali:

I think that the idea that a "being" :quote: becomes enlightened may be a misunderstanding. There is certainly the enlightenment process, and we should encourage those "things" that are conducive to the process (The Noble Eightfold Path) wherever we see them enacted - either internally or externally, but to think that there is "one" who becomes enlightened is just a convention - all misconceived notions of "self" have been eliminated at enlightenment.

Part of the enlightenment process, as I understand it, is to recognize this.

Stuart
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Re: Place of plants in the order of beings

Postby Stuart » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:44 pm

chownah wrote:Could it be possible that the Buddha prohibits monks from harming plant because having monks going around damaging plants (some of which were planted and tended even though it might not be obvious to a monk) would be a nuisance to a person or community and in general set a bad example for everyone in general and have nothing to do with plants having a potential to do anything?
chownah

chownah :anjali:

Yes maybe so, and also, maybe because plants are the homes and refuge for insects and birds and all sorts of animals. There is certainly mayhem in the rodent community in the aftermath of harvesting. Interdependence between the animal world and the plant world appears to be very important.

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Re: Place of plants in the order of beings

Postby Mukunda » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:59 pm

Stuart wrote:I think that the idea that a "being" :quote: becomes enlightened may be a misunderstanding.


And to think that there is not a being who becomes enlightened is an equal misunderstanding.
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Re: Place of plants in the order of beings

Postby meindzai » Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:13 pm

Stuart wrote:
chownah wrote:Could it be possible that the Buddha prohibits monks from harming plant because having monks going around damaging plants (some of which were planted and tended even though it might not be obvious to a monk) would be a nuisance to a person or community and in general set a bad example for everyone in general and have nothing to do with plants having a potential to do anything?
chownah

chownah :anjali:

Yes maybe so, and also, maybe because plants are the homes and refuge for insects and birds and all sorts of animals. There is certainly mayhem in the rodent community in the aftermath of harvesting. Interdependence between the animal world and the plant world appears to be very important.

Stuart
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Agree and agree.
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Re: Place of plants in the order of beings

Postby Stuart » Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:21 pm

Mukunda wrote:
Stuart wrote:I think that the idea that a "being" :quote: becomes enlightened may be a misunderstanding.


And to think that there is not a being who becomes enlightened is an equal misunderstanding.

:anjali:
Indeed - the problem, as always, is becoming ...

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