Alex123 wrote:I agree with cessation of suffering being the goal.clw_uk wrote:merely as a man who found a way to live without dukkha and taught a system of mental and moral training towards that end.
Which ones? Obviously physical ideas were also obsolete in his teachings. But, I like the quote.
clw_uk wrote:Just as a side note
Which ones? Obviously physical ideas were also obsolete in his teachings. But, I like the quote.
In "De rerum natura" Lucretius also locates the sense in the sense organ itself. I think he makes reference to the eye if I remember correctly.
Alex123 wrote:clw_uk wrote:Just as a side note
Which ones? Obviously physical ideas were also obsolete in his teachings. But, I like the quote.
In "De rerum natura" Lucretius also locates the sense in the sense organ itself. I think he makes reference to the eye if I remember correctly.
That is the sad thing that in ancient suttas and VsM, the biology is on the level of knowledge of that time. No enlightenment there.
AN 6.38 describes an exchange where a brahman tells the Buddha that he holds a view that effectively denies free will.Dr. Dukkha wrote:How can there be kamma if we don't have free will.
[url=http://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/wh175.pdf]Ethics in Buddhist Perspective[/url] by K. N. Jayatilleke wrote: As such, the Buddhist theory of causation seems to accept an element of indeterminacy in nature, which, in the case of human actions, manifests itself as the free will of the individual, which is conditioned but not totally determined by the factors that affect it.
Dr. Dukkha wrote:I've got something to pick your brain a little bit:
http://youtu.be/_FanhvXO9Pk
Sam Harris, a fellow atheist claims that there is no free will because everything we do or think is affected either by stimuli or through circumstances of birth. What do you think? How can there be kamma if we don't have free will. It makes great sense to me, but if anyone can disprove him, I'd love to hear.
daverupa wrote:Considering the ayatanas as biological organic function is a fundamental misunderstanding. The point is the experience of the sense, and to this end the six senses are comprehensive spheres of experience, not biology.
The goal appears to be the cessation of stress here and now. This cessation of stress seems to entail the cessation of birth, aging, and death.Nehemia83 wrote:The goal is to get out of cyclic existence because being caught in it and having to experience birth, ageing, and death endlessly is suffering, right?!
MN 141: Saccavibhaṅga Sutta wrote: Now what, friends, is the noble truth of stress? Birth is stressful, aging is stressful, death is stressful; sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair are stressful; not getting what is wanted is stressful.
...
And what, friends, is the noble truth of the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress? Just this very noble eightfold path: right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration.
SN 55.30: Licchavi Sutta wrote: The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One, to be seen here & now, timeless, inviting verification, pertinent, to be realized by the wise for themselves.
SN 22.86: Anurādha Sutta wrote: Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress.
Nehemia83 wrote: If I do not have the feeling of being caught in cyclic existence where is the point of trying to get out of it. Because even if I practice dharma in this life I won´t be aware of it in my next one right?
MN 2: Sabbāsava Sutta wrote: This is how he attends inappropriately: 'Was I in the past? Was I not in the past? What was I in the past? How was I in the past? Having been what, what was I in the past? Shall I be in the future? Shall I not be in the future? What shall I be in the future? How shall I be in the future? Having been what, what shall I be in the future?' Or else he is inwardly perplexed about the immediate present: 'Am I? Am I not? What am I? How am I? Where has this being come from? Where is it bound?'
...
He attends appropriately, This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress... This is the way leading to the cessation of stress.
SN 12.46 wrote:Dwelling at Savatthi... Then a certain brahman went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, exchanged courteous greetings with him. After an exchange of friendly greetings & courtesies, he sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One: "What now, Master Gotama: Is the one who acts the same one who experiences [the results of the act]?"
[The Buddha:] "[To say,] 'The one who acts is the same one who experiences,' is one extreme."
[The brahman:] "Then, Master Gotama, is the one who acts someone other than the one who experiences?"
[The Buddha:] "[To say,] 'The one who acts is someone other than the one who experiences,' is the second extreme. Avoiding both of these extremes, the Tathagata teaches the Dhamma by means of the middle: From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications. From fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness. From consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form. From name-&-form as a requisite condition come the six sense media. From the six sense media as a requisite condition comes contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance. From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. Such is the origination of this entire mass of stress & suffering.
"Now from the remainderless fading & cessation of that very ignorance comes the cessation of fabrications. From the cessation of fabrications comes the cessation of consciousness. From the cessation of consciousness comes the cessation of name-&-form. From the cessation of name-&-form comes the cessation of the six sense media. From the cessation of the six sense media comes the cessation of contact. From the cessation of contact comes the cessation of feeling. From the cessation of feeling comes the cessation of craving. From the cessation of craving comes the cessation of clinging/sustenance. From the cessation of clinging/sustenance comes the cessation of becoming. From the cessation of becoming comes the cessation of birth. From the cessation of birth, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair all cease. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of stress & suffering."
When this was said, the brahman said to the Blessed One: "Magnificent, Master Gotama! Magnificent! Just as if he were to place upright what was overturned, to reveal what was hidden, to point out the way to one who was lost, or to carry a lamp into the dark so that those with eyes could see forms, in the same way has Master Gotama — through many lines of reasoning — made the Dhamma clear. I go to Master Gotama for refuge, to the Dhamma, & to the community of monks. May Master Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge from this day forward, for life."
